theweaselking: (Default)
[personal profile] theweaselking
A modest proposal from MSNBC:

There is no question that reading is a desirable and often enjoyable skill to possess. In 2025, tens of millions of Americans continue to enjoy books and magazines as recreational pursuits, and this happy habit will undoubtedly remain part of the landscape for generations to come. But just as every citizen is not forcibly trained to enjoy classical music, neither should they be coerced into believing that reading is necessarily pleasurable. For the majority of students, reading and writing are difficult enterprises with limited payoffs in the modern world.

Some positions in society do require significant literacy skills: senior managers, screenwriters, scientists and others need a highly efficient way to absorb and communicate abstract thought. A broad written vocabulary and strong compositional skills are also powerful ways to organize and plan large enterprises, whether that means launching a new product, making a movie or creating legislation. But for the vast number of the workers who actually carry out those plans, the same skills are far less crucial. The nation’s leaders must be able to read; for those who follow, the ability should be strictly optional.

We have made at least two generations of American children miserable trying to teach them a skill that only a small percentage of them really need. And we have wasted billions of dollars that might well have gone for more practical education and training.

In 2025 it’s time to put reading into perspective for the remainder of the 21st century: it is a luxury, not a necessity!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] faeriemuriel.livejournal.com
....What?!

Nononono,reading is not to be reserved for only the top castes of people again.It sucked then,it'll suck in the future.WTF are they thinking?!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:21 pm (UTC)
jerril: A cartoon head with caucasian skin, brown hair, and glasses. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jerril
*twitch*

Other than the small fact that literacy changes the way you process information. It gives you an entire realm of symbolic logic you didn't have before. And even unskilled laborers need functional literacy - people who don't follow warning signs get into trouble, tickets, legal charges, or shot at. not to mention electrocuted, poisoned, hit by falling objects, etc.

If you aren't literate, you can't fight the beurocracy, either. Governments use the written word to confuse, bamboozle, and intimidate the illiterate.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
Revert to everything written being only in Latin IMO.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
And yet, even literary people can completely miss satire. Even satire labeled "A Modest Proposal."

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:36 pm (UTC)
jerril: A cartoon head with caucasian skin, brown hair, and glasses. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jerril
I KNOW it's satire, and I don't care.

It still demands to be addressed with a counter argument, if only to underline how important literacy really is.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
Or rather, you simply don't understand satire. The counterargument is inherent in the essay itself.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:39 pm (UTC)
jerril: A cartoon head with caucasian skin, brown hair, and glasses. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jerril
... I think you've completely missed my point. Satires are an excellent opportunity to bring an important subject up in discussion. That's really kind of the POINT of satire, to provoke discussion.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] normanrafferty.livejournal.com
I wonder what the latest film adaption of Fahrenheit 451 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0360556/) will be like.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elffin.livejournal.com
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elffin.livejournal.com
In point of fact, the point of satire is to lampoon the ridiculous notion, proposal, or person in question in such a way, as to have a gradual reversal of roles occur in the mind of the audience - to have them come to the conclusion of their own accord that the lauded goal of the persuasive piece is, in reality, a bad idea. It is to smooth-talk someone so well that the snake oil that drips from the forked tongue creates the slippery slope in the other direction. /Reductio ad absurdum/ provides the engine, and rhetorical skills provide the framing. "Friends, Romans, Countrymen - Lend me your ears; I come here today to bury Caesar, not to praise him..." etcetera.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elffin.livejournal.com
Which is to say - I don't want /my/ satires to provoke discussion, just to provoke the idiot who is the target of it to /stop being an idiot/ and for others to fail to follow said idiot by realising that yes, he/she is an idiot.

But, yes, I believe that there must always be someone who brings up the explicitly stated counter-argument, for the benefit of the less-bright and the children.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com
*sigh* I have a friend who's a very smart guy, very successful, witty, etc. - and has voluntarily read less than ten fictional novels in his entire life, not counting what he was required to read in school.

Ten. And one of them was The DaVinci Code.

I was so utterly boggled when he told me that, and then he was just as boggled when he asked how many I had read, and I couldn't even tell him, but ballparked it in the thousands somewhere.

*sigh*

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] torrain.livejournal.com
John's take on it is satire.

I am not entirely sure the article itself is. I mean, I've looked at it twice, and at the man's other entires for the column, and I'm *really* not sure. I want to believe it is, but I honestly can't find any indication thereof.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] faeriemuriel.livejournal.com
I could work with that. = P

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
On your latter point, very probably true.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
And yet, even literary people can completely miss satire.

Our reality these days is its own satire. I don't fault even the lit'ary types for missing it now and again.

-- Steve's increasingly dismayed... there goes half his arsenal.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
At least in terms of the way I view satire, taking the argument seriously often a) really ruins the joke, and b) can hoist the outraged counterresponder by their own petard. I remember a recent Onion article having that happen...

...ah yes, here it is!

Sorry if I seemed rude. I just really love satire as an art form.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
People see me with a different book about once every two weeks, and they have designated me as the workplace bookworm; even though I rarely read when at home (unless a book demands my finishing it, like my recent reread of C.S. Friedman's In Conquest Born.) I read it when I go outside to smoke at work, and I read it on the train home. I don't understand the people who just stare blankly at nothing during these events..

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
If for no other reason than that a) this person is clearly a wordsmith and enjoys literature, and b) he's talking, in the Internet age, about the lack of a need for a written medium, lead me to believe that he couldn't possibly be serious.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
Lorum ipsum dolor sit amet...

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
Fiat justitia ruat coelum, bitch.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] argaive.livejournal.com
I wonder if anyone has ever researched the correlation between literacy and voting intentions.

Either this is satire (I hope!), or that guy is a Republican shill.

:-)

A.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elffin.livejournal.com
"The more corrupt the state is, the more numerous are the laws.".

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
I, humiliatingly, had to look it up.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elffin.livejournal.com
"Our reality these days is its own satire. I don't fault even the lit'ary types for missing it now and again."

Satire really only works when the audience has a well-defined sense of what is required of them in society, and a potential sense of shame when they transgress same. Many people alive today have no idea what is basically required of them by their society, much less what they /ought/ to do, much less feel shame when they fail to do it - there's so much confusion as to what is really necessary for people to do, to carry on a civilised society, and a sense of freedom from repercussions for transgressions.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 06:52 pm (UTC)
kjn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kjn
Hegel bemerkte irgendwo, daß alle großen weltgeschichtlichen Tatsachen und Personen sich sozusagen zweimal ereignen. Er hat vergessen, hinzuzufügen: das eine Mal als Tragödie, das andere Mal als Farce.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 07:22 pm (UTC)
ext_195307: (Computer)
From: [identity profile] itlandm.livejournal.com
They may be defragmenting their brain.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 07:41 pm (UTC)
ext_12920: (frozen zombies)
From: [identity profile] desdenova.livejournal.com
I have three train-commuting behaviors: reading, iPod-listening, and staring blankly into space. Those are listed in the order of mental alertness required for each of them. Somedays after a long day of work, even space-staring feels extremely difficult.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 08:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elffin.livejournal.com
I would have to as well.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jdarkwulf.livejournal.com
A sci-fi novel I read once called this "iconerate". Not literate, but taught and able to recognize icons - distinctive colors and shapes of warning signs and various kinds of labels. Buttons. Maybe even able to recognize a few key words, not necessarily AS words, but as symbols.

But yes. They also pointed out that by not being able to read, the unwashed masses were functionally locked out from being able to be anything but a cog in the machine.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
Given the glazed look in their eyes, there's not much in there to fragment.

Tangent Ahoy!

Date: 2006-09-15 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com
You know, I think I have read all of Friedman's stuff EXCEPT In Conquest Born, and never picked it up even though I think she's an excellent writer and I've enjoyed all the rest of her stuff.

I have come to the conclusion that I just can't get past the abominable cover art (http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Born-Daw-Book-Collectors/dp/0756400430/sr=1-1/qid=1158353651/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4491991-9000154?ie=UTF8&s=books). I mean, seriously, the woman has CAMELTOE.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paoconnell.livejournal.com
It's not a satire--it's a troll, of course.

Worked, too--32 comments ahead of me as I type this. The Web is mostly something that's read, so putting this on the Web draws in readers like flies.

Re: Tangent Ahoy!

Date: 2006-09-15 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
I know what you mean about cover art turning me off to books. Granted, I didn't stare at the lady's crotch, but it is a pretty despicable cover piece. Considering that it's Whelon, that's shocking.

The book itself though is very interesting to me. Has a bit of intrigue, an interesting cultural study, basically a lot of shit that I like.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 10:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] giza.livejournal.com
Oddly enough, I sleep on the train ride home and read while laying in bed at night. :-/

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-15 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] publius1.livejournal.com
There does seem to be a definite cause-and-effect going on here...

D'you think he plays Shadowrun?

Date: 2006-09-15 10:27 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
I read it, and I think iconeracy as a required skill.

The scary thing is, there are people that are heading that way.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-09-16 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winterkoninkje.livejournal.com
Ah, my favorite author. Were you rereading for the sake of The Wilding or another reason?

As for reading, that's one of the reasons I love my commute. Short enough to not be a bother, but long enough to read. Of course it's not something that can help sell others on public transit if they're not reading in the first place... <laments humanity>

Re: Tangent Ahoy!

Date: 2006-09-16 01:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winterkoninkje.livejournal.com
Much as she's a phenomenal author, I started with Coldfire before going back and reading the older books, and you can really see how far she's improved even if her first books were merely excellent.

I liked In Conquest Born though it definitely has some rough edges after reading some of Friedman's newer works. The difference is jarring in The Wilding because you can see the seams between her excellent writing and using this old world that doesn't quite fit together as well as you know it should. But then if she changed it, it wouldn't really be in the same world as ICB. If you can get past the cover it's certainly worth a read, especially if you've read the Wilding.

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