You know, I'll admit, I don't know what/who Sodom and Gomorrah are, but I didn't think they were married. I know I've heard the names... Wait, weren't they cities? The ones with all the sinners? And god was gonna destroy them and someone wanted to save it so some angels told him to find one person who was worth saving.. Or something.. Couldn't find anyone and he told the dude and his family to run away and not look back. But his wife I think looked back and she turned to salt? Or something... Umm.. Wiki time!!
Oh, I did get it PRETTY well. Ah, it's interesting the differences between christian and jewish accounts of this story. I don't remember the homosexuality part being taught in jew school. But maybe it was cause we were young and why would you tell kids about guys having sex with each other? Annnyway:
"Classical Jewish texts do not specifically indicate that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because the inhabitants were homosexual. Rather, they were destroyed because the inhabitants were generally depraved and uncompromisingly greedy. Rabbinic writings affirm that the primary crimes of the Sodomites were terrible and repeated economic crimes, both against each other and outsiders"
I just thought it was interesting that this article implies that christian bibles DO specifically indicate that god destroyed the cities because the people were gay. Hmm..
On one hand: good! Can we please begin the complete removal of this crap from the popular culture?
The idea that americans need to have a working knowledge of world religions is sort of stupid. Shouldn't the goal be to have a world that can coexist regardless of religion? Why should I have to understand the Hindu faith? I should only need to understand decency and international law, i'd think.
The idea that americans need to have a working knowledge of world religions is sort of stupid. Shouldn't the goal be to have a world that can coexist regardless of religion?
Wouldn't having a working knowledge of religion help towards coexisting? At least so you don't bring a pound of bacon when a Jewish family invites you to dinner?
in the quiz, they ask "what is Ramadan" but the answer (" Answer: Ramadan is Muslim holiday characterized by a month of fasting.") does not tell us what Ramadan is, only what one does during it. that's like asking what's Hannukah and only saying it's characterized by lighting some candles. christmas? SHOPPING!
then this, from the article "Goff says schools are not wholly to blame for religious illiteracy." um WHAT? why are tehy to blame at all? isn't that the church's responsibility?
screw the xtians excepting that everyone should know the minutiae of a religion they themselves know so little about. everyone needs to know about xmas and easter, but god forbid they know anything about islam, beyond "omg they don't eat for the whole month?"
Yes, i'm sure calling it an "idiotic superstition" does wonders toward achieving your goals, much in the way that a Christian calling you a "godless heathen" does for theirs.
Well, it's dangerous to believe in something so strongly, and not even know wtf you are believing in...
And while we are blindly leading our separate faiths that we know nothing about, we often offend others who also have no idea wtf they are believing in, all we and they know is what is supposed to offend us and them. And that's enough to kill and die for... So stupid... If we understood each other, and ourselves, better, we might not have so many problems.
But hey, we are only human. Stupidly, stupidly, human. And we got too much going on in our lives to actually understand what we are believing in. =P
well, really, what is christmas about? do christians even know? presents? togetherness? it sure as hell isn't about jesus's birthday.. i mean, he wasn't even born that time of the year... right?? or am i severly confused? of course i'm confused, what am I saying...
but yeah, channukah, they told us the "kids" version about the holiday in jew school, then there is some other version. I'm so confused about that I still don't know.. ok, so the light burned for 8 days... then there was something about macabees... oye, i just don't know anymore...
and of course, i have NO idea what ramadan is about other than the fasting thing. in jewishness we fast when we want to be forgiven for our sins, to make ourselves weak before god (yom kippur).. is ramadan similar? anyone here actually muslim that could shed some personal light on this rather than me looking it up and reading some crappy thing that has nothing to do with what ramadan really means to a normal person who participates in it?
also, isn't it your parents responsibility to teach you stuff? i mean, parents can't be expected to teach you about all other religions.. and wtf, school? what 'bout the whole separation of church and state thing? hrm. my jew school had a whole year where we learned about other religions. Of course, i don't remember most of it.. but at least they tried, and they took us on field trips to a church and a mosque (spelling?) and they had a pastor and an emom (again, spelling?) tell us a bit about their religions. oh, and at the church, they gave us (unblessed) jesus crackers! which are nasty... ew.
i agree, that it should be the responsibility of our parents and spiritual leaders to teach us about other religions. i can see a small amount being taught in schools are part of a larger cirriculum about culture, but school should be teaching us how to balance our checkbooks and write in english (here, at least).
Ramadan is the holiday that celebrates the month that The Quoran was given to Mohammad from God.
I care not a lick for being called a godless heathen. From a christian point of view anyone outside their pantheon s a godless heaten anyway. But I'm in favor of a movement toward making religion less obligatory and more optional.
I think that knowing more about religion can help lead towards a state where it is "more optional". Seriously, who can object to knowing one's fellow man better, not only in matters of religion but in all facets of their culture?
No, the Christian Bible specifically indicates that God destroyed the cities because the people there were arrogant and merciless. However, the episode where the citizens wanted to get their will with the angels has kinda overwhelmed the rest of the text and caught a lot of people's imagination, I would wager. To the locals it would be an extreme example of lack of decency, since the safety of guests is one of the most ingrained values in the whole Middle East (and not only there, of course). If people could ignore that, they basically had no morals at all.
This drives me nuts: the core liberal conviction that being nice and playing fair with people who aren't in touch with reality and who don't care about reality will cause them to do the same.
They're not going to abandon their beliefs as long as they are mollycoddled and told that said beliefs are perfectly fine and not harmful and damaging to humanity in any way.
This isn't about *causing* them to do the same. This is about civility and diplomacy. Why should you want to get along with someone who calls your beliefs "idiot superstitions"? Did you tell your mom, "I can't reason with you while you're being all hormonal; i'll come back in five days"?
Try to pay attention: a prohibitive majority of the population on this planet has some sort of idiot superstition. That's a fact. Do you think telling them so is somehow going to make your point of view more meaningful, more attractive?
You're, essentially, proposing a "holy" war of secularity on believers, which puts you in the same boat as any other evangelizing asshole.
Civility and diplomacy are for those who will respond in kind, not for those who froth at the mouth. I'm not proposing any sort of war, no matter how threatened you feel by reality. I'm proposing that we stop pretending that religious nonsense is something that deserves tiptoe-ing around. That makes religious people angry? I'm sure it does. Delusional people get very upset when you point out their delusions.
To be blunt: I don't give a damn how upset people are made by reality. Nothing is more meaningful than reality, and just because most people in this world have been so thoroughly victimised and damaged by religion that they can't distinguish between their delusions and reality is no reason to pretend that irrational beliefs are anything but.
well, not actually. you'd be suprised how much knowing what someone's delusions are helps when those antipsychotics wear thin in the face of stress, which is not uncommon.
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 07:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 07:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 07:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 08:00 pm (UTC)Oh, I did get it PRETTY well. Ah, it's interesting the differences between christian and jewish accounts of this story. I don't remember the homosexuality part being taught in jew school. But maybe it was cause we were young and why would you tell kids about guys having sex with each other? Annnyway:
"Classical Jewish texts do not specifically indicate that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because the inhabitants were homosexual. Rather, they were destroyed because the inhabitants were generally depraved and uncompromisingly greedy. Rabbinic writings affirm that the primary crimes of the Sodomites were terrible and repeated economic crimes, both against each other and outsiders"
I just thought it was interesting that this article implies that christian bibles DO specifically indicate that god destroyed the cities because the people were gay. Hmm..
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 08:20 pm (UTC)The idea that americans need to have a working knowledge of world religions is sort of stupid. Shouldn't the goal be to have a world that can coexist regardless of religion? Why should I have to understand the Hindu faith? I should only need to understand decency and international law, i'd think.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 08:30 pm (UTC)Wouldn't having a working knowledge of religion help towards coexisting? At least so you don't bring a pound of bacon when a Jewish family invites you to dinner?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 08:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 09:09 pm (UTC)in the quiz, they ask "what is Ramadan" but the answer (" Answer: Ramadan is Muslim holiday characterized by a month of fasting.") does not tell us what Ramadan is, only what one does during it. that's like asking what's Hannukah and only saying it's characterized by lighting some candles. christmas? SHOPPING!
then this, from the article "Goff says schools are not wholly to blame for religious illiteracy." um WHAT? why are tehy to blame at all? isn't that the church's responsibility?
screw the xtians excepting that everyone should know the minutiae of a religion they themselves know so little about. everyone needs to know about xmas and easter, but god forbid they know anything about islam, beyond "omg they don't eat for the whole month?"
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 09:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 09:26 pm (UTC)And while we are blindly leading our separate faiths that we know nothing about, we often offend others who also have no idea wtf they are believing in, all we and they know is what is supposed to offend us and them. And that's enough to kill and die for... So stupid... If we understood each other, and ourselves, better, we might not have so many problems.
But hey, we are only human. Stupidly, stupidly, human. And we got too much going on in our lives to actually understand what we are believing in. =P
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 09:33 pm (UTC)but yeah, channukah, they told us the "kids" version about the holiday in jew school, then there is some other version. I'm so confused about that I still don't know.. ok, so the light burned for 8 days... then there was something about macabees... oye, i just don't know anymore...
and of course, i have NO idea what ramadan is about other than the fasting thing. in jewishness we fast when we want to be forgiven for our sins, to make ourselves weak before god (yom kippur).. is ramadan similar? anyone here actually muslim that could shed some personal light on this rather than me looking it up and reading some crappy thing that has nothing to do with what ramadan really means to a normal person who participates in it?
also, isn't it your parents responsibility to teach you stuff? i mean, parents can't be expected to teach you about all other religions.. and wtf, school? what 'bout the whole separation of church and state thing? hrm. my jew school had a whole year where we learned about other religions. Of course, i don't remember most of it.. but at least they tried, and they took us on field trips to a church and a mosque (spelling?) and they had a pastor and an emom (again, spelling?) tell us a bit about their religions. oh, and at the church, they gave us (unblessed) jesus crackers! which are nasty... ew.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 11:26 pm (UTC)Ramadan is the holiday that celebrates the month that The Quoran was given to Mohammad from God.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 11:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 11:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-11 11:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 01:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 01:34 am (UTC)They're not going to abandon their beliefs as long as they are mollycoddled and told that said beliefs are perfectly fine and not harmful and damaging to humanity in any way.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 02:27 am (UTC)Try to pay attention: a prohibitive majority of the population on this planet has some sort of idiot superstition. That's a fact. Do you think telling them so is somehow going to make your point of view more meaningful, more attractive?
You're, essentially, proposing a "holy" war of secularity on believers, which puts you in the same boat as any other evangelizing asshole.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 02:53 am (UTC)To be blunt: I don't give a damn how upset people are made by reality. Nothing is more meaningful than reality, and just because most people in this world have been so thoroughly victimised and damaged by religion that they can't distinguish between their delusions and reality is no reason to pretend that irrational beliefs are anything but.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 02:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 03:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 04:13 am (UTC)I would also prefer that people treat each other decently without having to believe in an imaginary deity looking over their shoulder, also.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 04:17 am (UTC)Let me know when your birthday is, so i can buy you a mirror.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 04:23 am (UTC)BURN THE WITCH!
This message paid for and approved by the Concerned Women Of America (http://www.cwfa.org/).
(no subject)
Date: 2007-03-12 04:37 am (UTC)