Technically, bestiality is not just fornicating with a 'beast', it is any fornication outside of your own species.
One of the reasons some fundie Xtians hate Star Trek is that the existence of all those human/vulcans, human/klingons, humans/cardassians, vulcan/klingons, klingon/romulan/jem ha'dar crossbreeds is evidence that, like in Torchwood, everyone is going around having sex with pretty well everyone else. In this case they complained about 'Bestiality', but because they were complaining about everything else as well, no-one noticed.
If they can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, they're not different species.
Hence, since The Doctor is supposedly half-human *and* he has multiple canonical children and grandchildren and then on down, Time Lords and humans are the same species.
It might be like using time travel to fuck caveman chicks, though: Kinda weird, regardless of species barriers.
Strictly, speciesisation can be between species which can breed, but don't, as a result of geographical seperation (and some sort of physical/behavioural differentiation), or having different mating timings/behaviours, even though they live side-by-side.
Also, you have to include the concept of fertile crosses, and even there there are reports of mules giving birth.
And then, there is the slight impediment that the Doctor is of a different species, having two hearts, physical and mental abilities outside the human range, and that he came from a different planet. (Although, if the timelords were originally humans who had gone back and set up Gallifrey ...) Anyway, whether startrek or Dr Who, the hybridisation thing is self evidently biological nonsense (who was it who said that Mr Spock may as well be a crossbreed of a human and a carrot, it makes more biological sense that way).
And further: letting actual science get in the way of fundies frothing about someone else having a good time? Why should we start now?
I gather that if you can produce a child it shouldn't be bestiality.
One thing I remember from Star Trek is that all those species are supposed to be related, they all came from the same stock. And if human/Timelords exist, it must be fine. Not quite sure how its possible, given that Gallifrey and Earth are physically and temporally so distant, but we'll probably find that the Doctor populated Earth himself or something like that. (I've also not yet seen his daughter, s sorry if I've missed an important link.)
I mean, people used to wonder if black and white people could crossbreed, it's one of the reasons why multicultural relationships were frowned on. It took (and is still taking) a long time to filter through that we are all one species.
Speciation is one of those things which (like the definition of 'pornography') seems obvious until you try to decide border cases. Are horses and donkeys the same species? Lions and tigers? Zebras and horses? Two species groups of moths, who could breed, except one is exclusively diurnal, the other nocturnal? It's all very fuzzy.
Given how much The Doctor travels, temporally and physically, I imagine that my theory that the Gallifreyans are actually descended from an outpost of humans in the first place is not necessarily out of the question.
The Star Trek retcon, OTOH, makes even less sense. It imposed a particular template on the dominant species of all these planets, but was done in such a way that evolution proceeded more-or-less as before. Meaning that Klingons are still descended from hairy crabs, and Vulcans/Romulans from ambulatory and intelligent vegetables. The handwave that made it alright for these disparate peoples to interbreed is simply nonsense: in a fine tradition of ST nonsense, such as the reversing the polarity of the neutron flow, or the Deus ex Machina of being able to reconfigure the front sensor array to emit [particle we just thought of] to [magically make problem go away]. Some suspensions of disbelief require heavier cables than others. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate Worf's 3/4 Klingon son or Spock or Whatserface on Voyager, it's just that my internal explanation for the mechanics is: 'magic'.
And I don't think anyone in their right mind ever thought that black and white people couldn't procreate, else there wouldn't have been so many laws against it. It was whether they should have or not that was at issue. And the reasons why not were all stupid in their own ways.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-24 09:07 pm (UTC)When Akia and I hook up with Lee this evening, we will drink a toast to our beloved friends in Canada. And horse cock.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-24 09:13 pm (UTC)And horse cock.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-25 12:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-25 02:48 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-25 07:08 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-25 10:15 pm (UTC)Just a little bit demeaning—some people will like a bit of rough...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 12:36 am (UTC)One of the reasons some fundie Xtians hate Star Trek is that the existence of all those human/vulcans, human/klingons, humans/cardassians, vulcan/klingons, klingon/romulan/jem ha'dar crossbreeds is evidence that, like in Torchwood, everyone is going around having sex with pretty well everyone else. In this case they complained about 'Bestiality', but because they were complaining about everything else as well, no-one noticed.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 12:43 am (UTC)Hence, since The Doctor is supposedly half-human *and* he has multiple canonical children and grandchildren and then on down, Time Lords and humans are the same species.
It might be like using time travel to fuck caveman chicks, though: Kinda weird, regardless of species barriers.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 12:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 12:58 am (UTC)Also, you have to include the concept of fertile crosses, and even there there are reports of mules giving birth.
And then, there is the slight impediment that the Doctor is of a different species, having two hearts, physical and mental abilities outside the human range, and that he came from a different planet. (Although, if the timelords were originally humans who had gone back and set up Gallifrey ...) Anyway, whether startrek or Dr Who, the hybridisation thing is self evidently biological nonsense (who was it who said that Mr Spock may as well be a crossbreed of a human and a carrot, it makes more biological sense that way).
And further: letting actual science get in the way of fundies frothing about someone else having a good time? Why should we start now?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 03:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 05:28 am (UTC)One thing I remember from Star Trek is that all those species are supposed to be related, they all came from the same stock. And if human/Timelords exist, it must be fine. Not quite sure how its possible, given that Gallifrey and Earth are physically and temporally so distant, but we'll probably find that the Doctor populated Earth himself or something like that. (I've also not yet seen his daughter, s sorry if I've missed an important link.)
I mean, people used to wonder if black and white people could crossbreed, it's one of the reasons why multicultural relationships were frowned on. It took (and is still taking) a long time to filter through that we are all one species.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 06:14 am (UTC)Speciation is one of those things which (like the definition of 'pornography') seems obvious until you try to decide border cases. Are horses and donkeys the same species? Lions and tigers? Zebras and horses? Two
speciesgroups of moths, who could breed, except one is exclusively diurnal, the other nocturnal? It's all very fuzzy.Given how much The Doctor travels, temporally and physically, I imagine that my theory that the Gallifreyans are actually descended from an outpost of humans in the first place is not necessarily out of the question.
The Star Trek retcon, OTOH, makes even less sense. It imposed a particular template on the dominant species of all these planets, but was done in such a way that evolution proceeded more-or-less as before. Meaning that Klingons are still descended from hairy crabs, and Vulcans/Romulans from ambulatory and intelligent vegetables. The handwave that made it alright for these disparate peoples to interbreed is simply nonsense: in a fine tradition of ST nonsense, such as the reversing the polarity of the neutron flow, or the Deus ex Machina of being able to reconfigure the front sensor array to emit [particle we just thought of] to [magically make problem go away]. Some suspensions of disbelief require heavier cables than others. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate Worf's 3/4 Klingon son or Spock or Whatserface on Voyager, it's just that my internal explanation for the mechanics is: 'magic'.
And I don't think anyone in their right mind ever thought that black and white people couldn't procreate, else there wouldn't have been so many laws against it. It was whether they should have or not that was at issue. And the reasons why not were all stupid in their own ways.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-26 10:20 am (UTC)I love this phrase.