I know that I, for one, would /definitely/ draw down a firearm on a kid that had just fallen off a bridge and shoot him nineteen times because TASERS ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE USED IN SITUATIONS WHERE GUNS WOULD BE USED AND ONLY FIRED WHEN GUNS WOULD BE FIRED FUCK FUCK FUCK
Cops have been assholes since there have been cops, but they didn't respond to an incoherent and injured teenager like he was an armed ex-con with a body like a linebacker and intent to break them like an undersized quarterback.
His blood tests have come up clean. He wasn't on PCP or magical faerie pills that would make him at all a threat. I'm seriously not sure there's anything that can justify their behavior.
It makes "sense" if the cops on that call were, basically, horrible people. I use "sense" in quotes because to me, the things that horrible people do don't exactly make SENSE-sense, but consider it short hand for "They were cruel, sadistic, calous monsters, possibly mentally impaired, definitely short on the common sense thing, and should not be allowed to carry weapons."
I don't. Those guns have counters in them so that they can be checked to see how many times they've been discharged. Using a taser on someone 19 times is excessively excessive.
The only kind of logical reason I could see there is if he had some firearm or explosive on him. That's the only reason I could see other then pure sadism.
Unfortunately apparently the police officers hear "This can't possibly kill someone, and it makes everyone helpless and compliant! Use it whenever you would use your hands on an offender, so you never have to risk your own saftey!"
Agreed. And they're meant to be used when there is a threat, not because someone is an inconvenience. Didn't I just read another news story about excessive tasing?
The problem with that, is this: The TASER corporation markets them and specifies them as a less-lethal alternative to guns, and in their use manuals, makes a point of the fact that these are less-lethal replacements for guns, and should be used in situations where guns would be used, and fired where guns would be fired.
The Force classification has nothing to do with it - they are stand-ins for firearms that happen to be less-lethal.
Police using them for crowd-control, kid-fallen-off-a-bridge control, kid-in-a-political-debate control, kid-in-a-library control are incompetent and should turn in their badges and forfeit their pensions.
This ones really recent where the guy got tasered 9 times and died and witnesses report that he was handcuffed and begging them to stop the whole time...
I never said that Cops risking their lives unecessarily, or getting killed doing their jobs, was good. If somehow my statement could be read like that, I appologize.
But I'm pretty damn sure that's not what I said.
What I said is that cops are using tasers in the situations that touching another human being would be appropriate for.
Even if that person smells, or says things you don't like, or looks like they're going to do the passive-resistance thing. Some times you just have to take people by the elbow and move them.
My aunt broke her neck in a car accident. Unfortunately, the police arrived before the ambulance. They were demanding she get up and move off the road (for her own safety and that of the drivers on the road). She knew she had a head/neck injury, and being a RN she flat out refused, telling them her reasons for it. Thy kept pressing her to get up and move to the side of the road, and at one point she basically had to push the cop off her when he tried to mover her. Finally the ambulance came, and trained professionals got her onto a backboard.
Now, if these cops wanted to be assholes about it, or if she was a young punk mumbling incoherently ("did she just say 'shoot cops'" "yeah, jim, I think she did" *bzzt* "get the fuck up"), or their training was even worse, AND they'd been carrying tasers? Yeah, she could have been roadside bacon just like this kid.
It wouldn't surprise me if the story ended up having more to it, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was just a case of "I SAID you have to get off the ROAD now!" *uses do-what-I-say stick*
Cop ignorance is the basic reason. A tasder is less lethal than a gun, but sadly the police are not particularly well informed at how very dangerous they are. Some police departments consider them as a form of casual control in the same way they'd look at handcuffs.
That's not a logical reason. You don't _handcuff_ someone with a broken back without the OK or paramedics unless they are a risk to themselves or others. Not to mention the fact that ignorance is no excuse in situations of law, especially not in assault such as this.
Ye gods if your waiting for people to be LOGICAL about things :P
I'd combine ignorance with paranoia. I mean, if anyone can be carrying a gun/bomb/enraged armadillo (insert pointed note about gun culture here) then you view just about anyone, especially anyone acting "differently" as being a potential lethal threat. It's cowardly, lazy, goes against the job, paranoide and certainly makes "protect and serve" a mockery but it does establish your authority well. Do what the police say or they can severely hurt you is an effective tool (sorry, I'm a defence lawyer - it leads to a... cynical attitude towards the police force).
Ignorance is no excuse in situations of law - but having a police department that will back you and cover your arse will not encourage you to learn from your ignorance nor will it expell the hopelessly ignorant. I mean, does anyone expect there to be any actual consequences against these police for their actions? I doubt it. And if there is a law suit the public will, as ever, scream about lawyers and compensation culture etc etc because police brutality is so blase.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 06:10 pm (UTC)I want my country back. This isn't the one I grew up in.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 06:26 pm (UTC)Yeah. It's fucked up, dude.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 06:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 06:49 pm (UTC)I've really come to hate it when people say that, because it just ain't true. This shit has been going on for a long time.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 06:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 06:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 07:12 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 07:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 07:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 07:47 pm (UTC)It makes "sense" if the cops on that call were, basically, horrible people. I use "sense" in quotes because to me, the things that horrible people do don't exactly make SENSE-sense, but consider it short hand for "They were cruel, sadistic, calous monsters, possibly mentally impaired, definitely short on the common sense thing, and should not be allowed to carry weapons."
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 07:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:12 pm (UTC)Unfortunately apparently the police officers hear "This can't possibly kill someone, and it makes everyone helpless and compliant! Use it whenever you would use your hands on an offender, so you never have to risk your own saftey!"
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:43 pm (UTC)The Force classification has nothing to do with it - they are stand-ins for firearms that happen to be less-lethal.
Police using them for crowd-control, kid-fallen-off-a-bridge control, kid-in-a-political-debate control, kid-in-a-library control are incompetent and should turn in their badges and forfeit their pensions.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 08:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 09:12 pm (UTC)This, however, is a separate issue.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 09:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 09:25 pm (UTC)This ones really recent where the guy got tasered 9 times and died and witnesses report that he was handcuffed and begging them to stop the whole time...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 09:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 10:04 pm (UTC)/sarcasm and some inaccuracy
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 10:48 pm (UTC)But I'm pretty damn sure that's not what I said.
What I said is that cops are using tasers in the situations that touching another human being would be appropriate for.
Even if that person smells, or says things you don't like, or looks like they're going to do the passive-resistance thing. Some times you just have to take people by the elbow and move them.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 10:54 pm (UTC)Now, if these cops wanted to be assholes about it, or if she was a young punk mumbling incoherently ("did she just say 'shoot cops'" "yeah, jim, I think she did" *bzzt* "get the fuck up"), or their training was even worse, AND they'd been carrying tasers? Yeah, she could have been roadside bacon just like this kid.
It wouldn't surprise me if the story ended up having more to it, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was just a case of "I SAID you have to get off the ROAD now!" *uses do-what-I-say stick*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-30 10:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 12:16 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 12:29 am (UTC)If you want your country back, you'll have to actively take it back from him and his ilk. They sure as hell aren't going to just give it back.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 12:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 01:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 02:00 am (UTC)It made my head hurt.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 02:13 am (UTC)He and I usually come to blows in comments to
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 04:18 am (UTC)Oh, and he wasn't begging the whole time. For the last two jolts he was unconscious.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 07:17 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 09:19 am (UTC)No, hell no, they're not safe! They're just safer than a GUN! That doesn't mean you should ever ever ever use them unless they're a last resort
And a kid lying with a broken back? There are so many many many resorts there before tasering
(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 09:20 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 09:23 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-07-31 12:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-08-01 11:42 am (UTC)I'd combine ignorance with paranoia. I mean, if anyone can be carrying a gun/bomb/enraged armadillo (insert pointed note about gun culture here) then you view just about anyone, especially anyone acting "differently" as being a potential lethal threat. It's cowardly, lazy, goes against the job, paranoide and certainly makes "protect and serve" a mockery but it does establish your authority well. Do what the police say or they can severely hurt you is an effective tool (sorry, I'm a defence lawyer - it leads to a... cynical attitude towards the police force).
Ignorance is no excuse in situations of law - but having a police department that will back you and cover your arse will not encourage you to learn from your ignorance nor will it expell the hopelessly ignorant. I mean, does anyone expect there to be any actual consequences against these police for their actions? I doubt it. And if there is a law suit the public will, as ever, scream about lawyers and compensation culture etc etc because police brutality is so blase.