theweaselking: (Default)
[personal profile] theweaselking
I'm curious to see some results from my personal Peanut Gallery, on this.

As always, poll results do not indicate what the law *is*. I just want to know what people *think* the law is. For the benefit of this, I'm assuming that we're discussing copyright law as it applies to countries which are subject to the Berne Convention.

[Poll #1357882]

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:09 pm (UTC)
andrewducker: (Default)
From: [personal profile] andrewducker
I didn't think that there was an agreed percentage that constituted "fair use". But there wasn't an option for that.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
Of course there is. The very first option discussing that says "part of" without saying how much. The rest of the options indicate that there's a maximum.

So if you want part with no percentage, just tick the first one and none of the rest.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:15 pm (UTC)
andrewducker: (Default)
From: [personal profile] andrewducker
Aaah, that makes sense. I'll leave my answers how they are then!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
I selected "10%" as a wild guess... I don't know if there was a hard figure set for what was reasonable, just that it wasn't a significant portion. After all, quoting 10% of a limerick doesn't give you very much to work with on an academic paper or literary critique.

-- Steve briefly earned a living cranking IP out for others (yay, sharecropping work-for-hire) but hasn't done so for over a decade now.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
Argh... I succumbed to ticky-box syndrome and felt I had to pick one.

-- Steve fails to look outside the (ticky) box.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lurkerwithout.livejournal.com
Going by MGK's post on the whole S_D mess 5-10% seems to be about the range for review purposes that is "safest". But its all very individual case basis determined if I understand what he's saying...

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
That's "usually safe", but "usually safe" is not a hard and fast rule.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
You could take the poll again and replace your old answer.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
I would like to answer "yes" to the last question one day.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-01 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
Just did; thanks for reminding me.

-- Steve thinks he left a chunk of IQ in storage somewhere this weekend.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stormfeather.livejournal.com
Agreed, I was wanting a "but I intend to someday, yes/no" question tacked on after the last one. XD

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 12:14 am (UTC)

Curious

Date: 2009-03-02 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
Does it matter that copyright laws differ in Canada and the US for the sake of this poll? Did you use the laws from any particular country when making this poll?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prizypussypants.livejournal.com
I am clearly confused. What was this question referring to around my "answer to the last question":
"After you looked up "estoppel" on Wikipedia, was your answer to the last question correct?"
You mean, my answer to question 5 or to question 6?
*needs coffee*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 01:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifantasy.livejournal.com
Comments:

Fair use is a four-part test, where two of the factors are "amount used" and "purpose of the use." The other two are "effect" and "nature of the work."

Parody is a fair use defense, per Acuff-Rose.

Estoppel has a bunch of meanings, you know.

I bet there are more affirmative defenses than I listed. I only listed the ones I was sure about.

The image linking could depend on policy of the owner. Personally, I think linking without images is both legal and most correct.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 01:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreamshade.livejournal.com
I was wondering if this was about the S_D mess, which was some wondful wankery to read through.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 01:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaosrah.livejournal.com
Hmm. If it's on the internet.. As long as I'm not profiting, I don't think anything I do is wrong. I don't know wtf the laws are, don't really have an opinion on what they should be. However, if the original owner had a problem with what I did with their stuff, I would just take it down. Call me a dumbass, call me oblivious, I just don't really care. Should I? I mean, so many other people are probably exactly like me.. Making the internet a worse-r place =P

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
Not specifically, although it did spawn the argument that led to the poll.

Re: Curious

Date: 2009-03-02 02:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
From the post:
"For the benefit of this, I'm assuming that we're discussing copyright law as it applies to countries which are subject to the Berne Convention."

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifantasy.livejournal.com
I have been watching, and to a small extent commenting, on the scans_daily rigmarole. I'm also a law student, and one interested in intellectual property law. So I'm not really the best case for "I don't want to know the law, I want to know the perception."

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com
That's why I hesitated on ticking both parody and fair use, but in the end did both.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ipslore.livejournal.com
'estop' is one of those words, like 'ecru' or 'esne', that shows up a lot in crosswords, but nowhere else.

Re: Curious

Date: 2009-03-02 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
*facepalm*

Sorry, I thought at first you meant a PREVIOUS post, not this one. :P My bad.

Yeah.. My eyes tend to go from subject to poll. I missed the text in between. Again, my bad.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 03:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skington.livejournal.com

"ecru" turns up regularly in French-language clothing catalogues. That it happens to also be a word in English appears to me to be somewhat tangential.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 04:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifantasy.livejournal.com
Occasionally legal documentation, on the theme of "petitioner sued to estop appellant from..."

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 04:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifantasy.livejournal.com
Right. Fair use is a defense to copyright infringement claims. (As is, as Universal Pictures learned a while ago, "it's in the public domain, and the person suing me knows it, they even went to court to say so!")

And precedent states that parody is a form of fair use.

ALSO

Date: 2009-03-02 05:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
Did you get my message through Facebook w/ the "guess the state" link offering?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
I think that was more for those who claimed they knew what it meant. He wanted to see if, after looking up the definition, they were right in what they understood it to mean.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
What does the bottom half of your icon say? The "defectus re ipsa?"

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifantasy.livejournal.com
According to the Latin teacher friend I asked, "defectus re ipsa" is a rough translation for "disappointed by reality."

Personally, I think it's more accurate as "things are wrong," but it'll do.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] interactiveleaf.livejournal.com
I think you're a perfectly good case for it. If it so happens that your perception is an accurate model of the law, that's OK for the purposes of this poll, as I understand it.

Besides, you make up for people like me. :D

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifantasy.livejournal.com
But one of the important facets of, certainly, US copyright law (and probably many other countries' as well) is that "reality" and "Title 17 of the US Code" (the part on copyright, naturally) don't intersect much.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prizypussypants.livejournal.com
Ahhhh. Thank you! :)

Re: ALSO

Date: 2009-03-02 01:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
I don't use Facebook.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 01:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
No, you're perfect. I want to know what people think the law is, and you're "people". I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't looking for legal advice by majority.

And yes, several of the questions have intentionally tricky, misleading, or redundant answers. But take a look at the difference in the results for "Parody" versus "Fair Use" and I think you'll start to see why I split them up that way.

Re: ALSO

Date: 2009-03-02 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
Sorry, I meant LiveJournal. I don't know why I typed Facebook.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
Ahh.. thanks!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaffa-tamarin.livejournal.com
I looked up the definition, and I still don't know what it means.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ice-hesitant.livejournal.com
Conversely, ignorance of the law is not always a defense should Cthulhu notice you.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
Yeah, me neither. I mean, I THINK it MIGHT mean that you can't use the same claim/denial twice for the same crime (or type of crime). BUT... without actual examples I couldn't say for certain.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitteringlynx.livejournal.com
For example, you couldn't claim ignorance of the law twice. AS A GUESS! Again, I don't really know.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-03-02 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaosrah.livejournal.com
hehehehe

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