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Rolling Stone, on why a draft is both being planned for and inevitable as long as King George is allowed to remain in office.

Including, not surprisingly, the details on the threats used to keep "volunteers" enlisted: Either you sign up voluntarily for 4 more years of regular service, or you're stop-lossed and assigned involuntarily to front-line active combat duty until *2031*.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-31 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
I'm not necessarily opposed to a draft, to be honest.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-31 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spartonian.livejournal.com
Dear god, I am. I deal with enough shitheads as it is. I don't want more shitheads to deal with who don't even want to be in the service.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-31 08:56 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-31 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thathatedguy.livejournal.com
If I get drafted, I am going to do everything in my power to be assigned to your ship, just so I can follow you around and tell you how much Motley Crue sucks;)
I won't get drafted short of Red China Invading Ohio. Between my knee, back, elbow, and neck, I won't pass anything that resembels a physical.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-31 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spartonian.livejournal.com
I won't be on a ship... so there.

The only branch to take gimps and/or monkeys is the ChAir Farce.

Ethics is Complex

Date: 2005-02-01 12:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Mostly due to my contractualist theory of ethics.
Basically, all reasonable ethical agents have at least three fundamental rights: the right to life, the right to liberty (that is, the right to do whatever they want so long as they do not intentionally create an unreasonable risk of infringing on the rights of others), and at least the right to defend ones rights (which the only one of these three that warrants the use of force). Is it unreasonable to deny that ethical agents have a duty to defend their rights? Does the defense of rights only extend to ones own rights or to the rights of others? It seems reasonable to say that those who care about defending their own rights should assist each other in defending those rights, or in other words, that those who wish to have those rights protected should be willing to help protect them in whatever capacity they are best capable of performing.
Now, it would be benevolent of those who are willing to help defend those rights to protect the rights of others. So, the question becomes, do we blame those who refuse or praise those who do it and what form of blame or praise would be appropriate? I think it would be better to reward those who do it than to punish those that don't, but what sort of reward is appropriate?
Maybe we should take a hint from Plato's "Republic" and Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" (the novel, most emphatically not the movie), which, regardless of Heinlein's narrator's disparagement of the "Republic", have similarities between the two hypothetical forms of government which are too obvious for me to ignore.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-02-01 12:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Pararescue and Combat Controllers are Air Force.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-02-01 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spartonian.livejournal.com
Let me have my fan, damnit. It was a cheap shot at the USAF. Besides, the Navy and Coast Guard both do SAR too.

I don't really know what a combat controller is, but if it involves directing an operation of some sort, that's most definitely not a physically intensive job.

Re: Ethics is Complex

Date: 2005-02-01 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenten.livejournal.com
So because you're giving certain rights, including the right to live, it is your duity to give up those rights, to go remove them from others? Or are we talking about something other than Iraq here?

Re: Ethics is Complex

Date: 2005-02-01 06:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Did I say Iraq was a just war? The reasons why we're there are unclear; we were, simply, lied to in order to support it. If it actually ends up with Iraq being a parliamentary democracy, then those who have fought there arguably performed a supererogatory act, they went above and beyond the call of duty (even though that crap about the seeds is still bullshit, but that's been going on for 30 years since India; I'm not a conservative because I hold individual rights to be more sacred than the supposed rights of fictional persons like corporations), since it is benevolent of us to free other people (and the argument that you can't force people to live in a democracy doesn't hold water ... look at Japan post-WWII; we forced them to change from a monarchy).
With respect to the "war on terror", I'm not a military historian, but I'm not really all that sure how much military history would apply since the whole technological landscape is vastly different now than it ever was before, so this is purely speculative; I'm for surgical strikes guided be intelligence over "sledgehammer to plywood" style "bomb the shit out of 'em" stuff.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-02-01 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Combat Controllers are USAF special forces; it does involve directing an operation ... but somebody has to think for the Army, right?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-02-01 06:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Don't send it to George. Get somebody to post it on the internet. That way, he'll actually end up seeing it.

I'm scared now

Date: 2005-02-01 06:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
You have pics of your bare ass floating around on the internets?

Re: I'm scared now

Date: 2005-02-01 07:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
A bit of sanity has returned to the world.

Re: Ethics is Complex

Date: 2005-02-01 01:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenten.livejournal.com
I think there are too many vague answers to justify a draft right now. Now, if your country was under attack, or a country that you were close allies with was (say Britain), that would be a different story.

Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
... but if you listen to the conservative pundits and schills, we are under attack! We're under attack from all sides! Not only are the terrorists huddling in their mountain caves and inner city apartments planning on killing us all, we've got the insidious liberals who want to undermine the very fabric of society itself by demanding personal liberty and corporate accountability, plus do absolutely horrible things like have national health care! OH NOES!
By the way, I agree, however, I'm also not necessarily opposed to the idea of continuous compulsory military service, as that would probably make it much less likely that we'd get ourselves involved in stupid wars in the first place.

Re: Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenten.livejournal.com
I like the idea of two years of manditory military training like in many European countries.

Re: Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Well, right, that's what I meant. I probably used a bad term for it.
Have you ever read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers"? Not just seen the movie, which is such total and utter crap that it staggers the imagination.

Re: Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenten.livejournal.com
I havn't read it. It's on my long list of books to read.

Re: Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
I highly recommend it; I also recommend going over a good synopsis of Plato's "Republic" about the time you're reading it.

Re: Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenten.livejournal.com
I guess I should read plato's republic, but it sounds like the type of book that would make me angry.

Re: Oh!

Date: 2005-02-01 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
The forms of government described in the Republic and "Starship Troopers" are very similar. Similar to the point where I think Heinlein got his ideas from Plato. The narrator in Starship Troopers goes on this little rant about how the government in Plato's Republic is so horrible, but the differences are minimal to non-existent. Here's the squashed version: http://www.btinternet.com/~glynhughes/squashed/plato.htm

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