(no subject)

[theweaselking]

On why "Batman Begins" should be used as a "spot the issues" law school exam and why, legally, it makes no sense in modern American legal culture.

Spoilers abound! And so do misspellings of Ra's Al Ghul

Comments

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

Na uh.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Oh, come on. That article was AWESOME.

(And demonstrates all the kinds of "problems" that suspension of disbelief covers)

[zenten.livejournal.com]

Well, some of those made sense, but the first one had an issue, namely that it's kind of hard to serve papers for a lawsuit against batman, given that no one officialy knows who he is.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

Please tell me that you didn't take that article seriously...

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't take it seriously. Like I said, this is the kind of thing that suspension of disbelief *covers*. It doesn't ruin the movie at all to know that they're not following corporate law.

It's still funny as hell.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

They aren't following real world corporate law. Being that they are in a completely different world, things might not be the same.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

There's no evidence to show that they're *not* in something that acts like the real world, and that kind of argument is the kind of thing that leads to "Well, there's no reason we need to EXPECT gravity to always work in the movie!"

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

One of the objections specifically sites the Williams Act. Is there a Williams and an act in his name in DC's universe as well? I doubt it.

And yes there is evidence that they're in something that doesn't act like the real world. Superman defies gravity all the time.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

> One of the objections specifically sites the Williams Act. Is there a
> Williams and an act in his name in DC's universe as well? I doubt it.

Why would there *not* be?

> And yes there is evidence that they're in something that doesn't act like
> the real world. Superman defies gravity all the time.

#1: Superman does not exist in Batman Begins.
#2: Superman's existence is not a justification for gravity not working. Superman is affected by gravity, but he can fly because he's an alien.
#3: Once again, even *if* Superman existed in the movie, which he doesn't, the existence of aliens who can fly does *not* inherently justify any change without explanation. Let's put this in a different context: Because vampires exist in the World Of Darkness, this doesn't mean that all humans can grow to be 20 feet tall at will and that this growth requires no explanation other than "Vampires. Duh."

The world of Batman is set up like the real world, with changes made that are made clear to us, the viewer, by those changes being shown onscreen.
We are meant to make assumptions that the world is like the real world in most ways.
We are required to assume that, in the absence of an explanation, this world will act like the real world.

Therefore, when something happens that contradicts the real world and no explanation is given, we are required to suspend our disbelief and accept the change. The suspension of disbelief required by the legal quibbles is small, and easily done - we don't care that they're not following corporate law. The suspension of disbelief should Batman suddenly fly into outer space under his own power and deflect a comet with his ninja powers would be large. We do care that Batman is a normal human with exceptional training and skill, and acts that fall outside that realm do not fit Batman.

Do you understand what I am saying, yet?

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

Why would there *not* be?
Um, because it's a completely different universe. In this universe, an entirely different city called Gotham City sprung up roughly right where New York City is in the real world. I'm supposed to believe that everything else is exactly the same when a giant American city is simply lifted off the map and replaced with an entirely different one?

#1: Superman does not exist in Batman Begins.
This movie clearly exists in the DC universe. In the DC universe, Superman exists.
#2: Superman's existence is not a justification for gravity not working. Superman is affected by gravity, but he can fly because he's an alien.
I didn't say it was a justification for gravity not working, I said it was a justification for the story taking place in something that doesn't act like the real world. And he still defies gravity, regardless of why he does it.
#3: Once again, even *if* Superman existed in the movie, which he doesn't, the existence of aliens who can fly does *not* inherently justify any change without explanation.
Now c'mon, am I supposed to susupend my disbelief so much that everything stays the same despite the presence of large scale changes in the setting?

Therefore, when something happens that contradicts the real world and no explanation is given, we are required to suspend our disbelief and accept the change.
No one ever explains where New York went. No one ever explains where Gotham City is on my map. Where are those explanations? We never see anyone in the bathroom in this film. Have people stopped using the bathroom? Where's the explanation for why no one is in the bathroom? I can't suspend my disbelief that human beings have stopped eliminating waste, yet there is no explanation given for the lack of people in the bathroom in the film. Christ, if we're going to debate the details of corporate law, shouldn't we also debate the lack of biological necessities?

And half of the law quibbles are put to bed by the "gun makers are not responsible for gun deaths" precedent. Using that as precedent, objections 2-4 disappear. Let's also look at the fact that Wayne Enterprises was clearly involved in military and defense R&D (the scene with the "Thomas Wayne wouldn't approve..." quote from one of the board members) so the purchasers of the stock would know that the company they were buying stock from was engaged in weapon manufacture. Thus the risk to their stock incurred when one of those weapons was stolen does not translate to responsibility to Wayne Enterprises.

Now, your issues with the steam and microwave ray are perfectly great. I've told everyone who's seen the movie about them. We can expect science to act the same because it is not bound by the social or historical or political climate in the setting it is in. Law is affected by all those things. To change the social, political, and historical climate of a setting and then try to sell me that everything has gone exactly the same...that's just ridiculous. If someone went back in time and killed Martin Luther King Jr when he was a baby, the face of race relations in this country would have a completely different look. All for the lack of one man. Heat would still evaporate water in human bodies, water heated to super high temperatures would still yield super hot steam, but race relations in this country would be a completely different thing.