(no subject)

[theweaselking]

In the US Military, the batshit insane Christians think "chaplain" means "Hey, I have a captive audience for conversion! Let's tell all the catholics, muslims, and jews that they're going straight to hell! And it's religious discrimination to ask that I do the fucking job I was hired for!"

Hugo Chavez and the government of Venezuela will be pursuing legal action against Pat Robertson in the USA.

A Florida appeals court overturned a DUI-Manslaughter conviction on the groups that the cops didn't tell the driver they were going to loko at his medical records.

Ah, yes. "We need to keep occupying Iraq so the terr'ists don't get the oil!"

Comments

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

Go Venezuela.

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

I for one am going to have to disagree. A speech act is not an act of terrorism unless it is carried out. While I think Venezuela has a point, I really doubt it will help them in the long run.

I can't think of a US administeration that would respect that request.

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

I fucking hate Pat Robertson (and his ilk) with a dark passion. If saying something similar about the President of the US is punishable, I don't see how saying it about a democratically elected leader of any other country is not punishable; I'm not going to claim that jurisprudence is consistent, but it would only provide evidence for corruption and hypocrisy.

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

Irrelevent to my statement. One) Robertson did not threaten assination, he said he would support a government action. While I find it deplorable, there is a distinction for this in US law.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

He's calling it a terrorist act - but, really, it *does* contravene US law on uttering of threats, by a strict view of the law as it's always been applied in Viriginia (where the statement was made) courts.

I've got a link for a dissection of the applicable laws and precedents around here somewhere...

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

Does it break to law to advocate the death penalty for a uncommitted crime? Note that Robertson never said that "he would kill Hugo Chavez" but endorsed an government action to "take him out."

It's semantic, but semantics are crucial in speech law.

[sivi-volk.livejournal.com]

Actually, he specifically endorsed assassination. Calling for the assassination of a head of state is, I'm pretty sure, by U.S. definition, a terrorist act.

If he were muslim, and doing the same for Bush, he'd be in Gitmo faster than you can say "peace be upon him."

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

It's been done by mainstream press before in regards to Sadam Hussein, many, many times. You are also confusing intra-national law and international law.

[corruptedjasper.livejournal.com]

It's not free speech to threaten a head of state with assassination. Try making livejournal posts threatening Bush sometime and see how quickly the SS[1] are on your doorstep.

[1] Secret Service.

[rolodexpropaga.livejournal.com]

Do not confuse intra-national and international law regarding this matter. It's not free speech to threaten a head of state with assassination.

Technically Robertson did threaten, he endorsed. There's a massive difference in the eyes of the law. Robertson did not say, "I want to kill Hugo Chavez," he said "the United States should kill Hugo Chavez."

So your logic is faulty.

[(Anonymous)]

While your LJ has a lot of good stuff on it, ...I politely disagree with your perception of the "batshit christians".

The article you link says that Chaplain Klingenschmitt has not badgered his fellow shipmates with a hell-bound message supported non-christian shipmates by "back[ing] a Jewish sailor's request to receive kosher meals and tried to get permission for a Muslim crewman to take a turn offering the nightly benediction over the ship's public address system".

The sermon that was referred to had a passing reference to hell, but was not forcing others to listen to his message. Instead
Chaplain Klingenschmitt said "My sermon was in the base chapel, it was optional attendance, and it was by invitation. If we can't quote certain scriptures in the base chapel when people are invited to church, where can we quote them?"

He even went so far as to quote a Pentagon regulation that "chaplains shall be permitted to conduct public worship according to the manner and forms of the church of which they are members."

"Don't paint me as a person who's going around forcing my faith on people. I've never done that."

I do support freedom of religion, but I think your using the same rhetoric that republicans used in the last election. One chaplain praying in Jesus name (which he is obligated to according to the Bible), while encouraging other religious groups opportunities to present and maintain their traditions, speaks about a dead sailors faith (which includes a belief in hell), does not equate to...

"In the US Military, the batshit insane Christians think "chaplain" means "Hey, I have a captive audience for conversion! Let's tell all the catholics, muslims, and jews that they're going straight to hell! And it's religious discrimination to ask that I do the fucking job I was hired for!"

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Hmm... uWaterloo, but you're not Pete or Doug, since they have accounts. Do I know you in person? If you're Pete or Doug, LOG IN, man.

> I politely disagree with your perception of the "batshit christians".

Which is entirely your right. I feel that my opinion of this minority is justified, given their recent strange insistence that evangelism is not just something that should be done, but is the purpose of everything they do and all other things should be subordinate to it.

His sermon, *as chaplain for the unit of the man who died*, included exhortations from the religion of the chaplain and *not* of the dead man. It included an opportunity to tell the audience *as chaplain of their unit* that they were going to hell if they don't share his religion.

This wasn't a "I'm going to give an obscure Baptist sub-cult service, and you're invited", this was "I'm giving a memorial for a man from our unit".

> "chaplains shall be permitted to conduct public worship according to the
> manner and forms of the church of which they are members."

True. This regulation was written, however, before the advent (pun intended) of churches whose "manner and forms" involved attacking all non-members as hellbound sinners. This was meant to allow a Jewish or Catholic or Muslim or other protestant services to provide non-denominational support, not to provide a recruiting-and-attack platform for people who can't *spell* Jesus, let alone tell you what he taught.

In the end, my statement about them not doing their job holds true. The purpose of a military chaplain is to provide reassurance to the soldiers and improve morale, regardless of the individual faith of the soldier or the chaplain, and he's *not* doing that.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah its Pete...i just didn't bother to sign in.

"evangelism is not just something that should be done, but is the purpose of everything they do and all other things should be subordinate to it"

And that minority, irrelevant of "heart-in-the-right-placedness" (which can theoretically happen in the subspecies of this type), is pretty out there. But I do not think that this is the case here.

The article seems to suggest that the dead soldier had recieved a "Born-again" experience, and likely shared those beliefs.

The Chaplain in question didn't, short of a passing reference (which was part of a larger quote from scripture) during a funeral, ever suggest the need for salvation through christ. He has prayed "in the name of Jesus" previously, but that doesn't seem to me to be a case of "attacking all non-members as hellbound sinners".

Perhaps there should be a strong suggestion (as in reprimand) that he choose his references to scripture carefully, so as to maintain morale in a broader sense amongst soldiers who might not share the same beliefs.

But I do think your rhetoric is blowing it out of proportion. He doesn't seem to be a Hinn, Robertson, or Fawell saying its is obligation to tell all non-christians that they are going to hell.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey dude! It's Pete again...see you soon