(no subject)

[theweaselking]

US Government Accountability Office report clearly details how the voting system in the USA was deliberately built to be defraudable.

An excerpt from one of the books written on the subject, detailing the main points, is available here from the Huffington Post.

While I'm at it,
Kidnapped German citizen released from American custody after five months of wrongful imprisonment, inhumane conditions, death threats, and torture.

Masri said his cell in Afghanistan was cold, dirty and in a cellar, with no light and one dirty cover for warmth. The first night he said he was kicked and beaten and warned by an interrogator: "You are here in a country where no one knows about you, in a country where there is no law. If you die, we will bury you, and no one will know."

Back at the CTC, Masri's passport was given to the Office of Technical Services to analyze. By March, OTS had concluded the passport was genuine. The CIA had imprisoned the wrong man.

At the CIA, the question was: Now what? Some officials wanted to go directly to the German government; others did not. Someone suggested a reverse rendition: Return Masri to Macedonia and release him. "There wouldn't be a trace. No airplane tickets. Nothing. No one would believe him," one former official said. "There would be a bump in the press, but then it would be over." Once the mistake reached Tenet, he laid out the options to his counterparts, including the idea of not telling the Germans. Condoleezza Rice, then Bush's national security adviser, and Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage argued they had to be told, a position Tenet took, according to one former intelligence official.

The CIA argued for minimal disclosure of information. The State Department insisted on a truthful, complete statement. The two agencies quibbled over whether it should include an apology, according to officials. Meanwhile, Masri was growing desperate. There were rumors that a prisoner had died under torture. Masri could not answer most questions put to him. He said he steadied himself by talking with other prisoners and reading the Koran.

A week before his release in late May 2004, Masri said he was visited in prison by a German man with a goatee who called himself Sam. Sam told Masri he was going to be released soon but that he would not receive any documents or papers confirming his ordeal. The Americans would never admit they had taken him prisoner, Sam added, according to Masri.

On the day of his release, the prison's director, who Masri believed was an American, told Masri that he had been held because he "had a suspicious name"

Meanwhile, a German prosecutor continues to work Masri's case. A Macedonia bus driver has confirmed that Masri was taken away by border guards on the date he gave investigators. A forensic analysis of Masri's hair showed he was malnourished during the period he says he was in the prison. Flight logs show a plane registered to a CIA front company flew out of Macedonia on the day Masri says he went to Afghanistan.

Masri can find few words to explain his ordeal. "I have very bad feelings" about the United States, he said. "I think it's just like in the Arab countries: arresting people, treating them inhumanly and less than that, and with no rights and no laws."

=======================================
Five years ago, could you imagine that *really* being the opinion of the free world on the USA?

(torrain has been known to lament that during Bush's regime, the quintessential American symbol stopped being Captain America and starting being Invader Zim.)

Comments

[jl-williams.livejournal.com]

And that is why torrain gets a VIP on my Friends list.

She says what we're all thinking!

(At least the Canadians, anyway. Most of the Americans are programmed to think otherwise.)

[thormation.livejournal.com]

If by "most" you mean "half", then you are right, but in dire need of English lessons.

In any event, thanks for demonizing an entire country based on the behavior of its stupidest citizens!

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Is it our fault that "stupidest citizens" and "decision makers" overlap for you?

(Aside: Had a nice conversation the other day with a guy who quite sincerely explained the horrible liberal media conspiracy, all the way to saying that Fox news were ALSO horrible liberal commies - his word, not mine - just not quite as bad as some of the others.)

[leighdb.livejournal.com]

Is it our fault that "stupidest citizens" and "decision makers" overlap for you?

No, but you might ask yourself if tarring approximately 300 million people with the same brush makes you much smarter. Or better.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

You say that like you think the Zim analogy isn't true.

I'm puzzled.

(For consideration: Tony Blair = Keef. Hiya buddy!)

[leighdb.livejournal.com]

I don't know Invader Zim from a hole in the ground, nor do I care.

What I do care about is that even though we agree on a surprising number of political/social fronts, I am seriously considering de-friending you for your verging-on-fanatical anti-Americanism.

I don't need to read someone who I feel like might spit on me for an accident of birth, never mind that I cried real tears when Bush was reelected and I am FAR from being the only one in this country who did.

I did what I could; I voted for the other guy. After that it's out of my hands, as it is for 99% of everybody, regardless of who they voted for. You don't get to judge me for something I have no control over unless you're prepared to be considered a giant raging hypocrite.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Okay. It's good to hear why you're upset. Let's see if I can address this:

Backing up for a moment, Zim is a cartoon. An amazingly, incredibly funny cartoon about an insecure, incompetent, megalomaniacal alien out to destroy all humanity. The comparison to Zim was meant to be a joke.

> I am seriously considering de-friending you for your verging-on-fanatical
> anti-Americanism.

Okay. I'm apparently not making my opinions clear enough, and I'll work on that.

I very rarely say bad things about America, the concept, or Americans in general.

I say quite a lot of bad things about the American government, where a majority two of the three branches (and a good chunk of the third) are working together to fuck the American people and the world in the process of enriching themselves. I say quite a lot of bad things about the US Military and associated bits, despite having LJ-friends and real friends serving, because a lot of what they're doing is frankly repugnant shit. I say one whole hell of a lot of bad things about the American brand of spooky magic-believing science-hating fuck-the-poor "If English was good enough for Jesus then it's good enough for YOU!" Baptists. I say a fair number of bad things about individual Americans doing insane or stupid things.

I even say bad things about your elections, because they're blatantly corrupt, about the objective flaws in your two-party system, and occasionally, rarely, about your Constitution, which was an awesomely forward-thinking and enlightened document two centuries ago but *does* have it's flaws, especially when dealing with two centuries of progress that it doesn't account for.

I say all these things specifically *because* I think they need to be known, and because I think there are plenty of Americans who share my feelings and want this kind of shit to STOP.

And I don't do this just for Americans and American issues. I post on Taiwanese insanity and African lunacy and screwy Japanese politicians and fads. It applies to Canada, too: I seem to recall that the nicest thing I've said about the CPC lately was describing them as the "National Socialist" alternative to the NDP's "Socialists". And when Americans do things right, when new scientific developments that make me go "ooh" come out of American universities, when a law that restricts voting is struck down, when one of your politicians steps up and says "Dammit, that shit John said had to stop? It's got to STOP!" and does something, I'm all over that, too.

I don't recall ever saying "Americans are all bad", or judging anything as "typically American" because it was dumb. I'll shorthand to "The USA" when discussing foreign policy or international opinion, but I'm hardly unusual (or incorrect, really) in that.

And I'm sorry if I've offended you, or implied that my dislike of your government and it's policies extends to you, people like you, or to any aggregate group of Americans that don't support it. I will watch out for it in the future, and I honestly appreciate having it pointed out to me when it happens, because I'm obviously missing it.

Sound fair?






(I'm even occassionally a tongue-in-cheek rabid Canadian nationalist, deriding anyone who doesn't have to wrestle a carnivorous moose naked to get their morning paper as an overcivilised and pampered fop. This, however, is perfectly justified, because they are. No, really. Want to see my moose bite scars?)

[leighdb.livejournal.com]

I don't recall ever saying "Americans are all bad", or judging anything as "typically American" because it was dumb. I'll shorthand to "The USA" when discussing foreign policy or international opinion, but I'm hardly unusual (or incorrect, really) in that.

I'll grant that you probably do not intend to indicate by using such shorthand that America is Evil, full stop, but it is often difficult if not impossible to tell, especially when in conjunction with your defense of other commenters (in this entry, for instance) who are engaging in blatant America-bashing.

I will also grant that I am getting increasingly thin-skinned on this particular topic, but in a way that is the point. When so many people these days are incapable of voicing critiques of American foreign policy without jumping straight into voicing hatred of all Americans, and given that after a while, any group that has been under consistent fire (with or without cause) has a tendency to get a little gun-shy, so to speak, perhaps you can see how easily your convenient shorthand could be misinterpreted.

It's bad enough to have to watch Bush and Co. piss the world's good opinion of our nation down the toilet without having to feel like no one sees any qualitative difference between them and me.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

> especially when in conjunction with your defense of other commenters
> (in this entry, for instance) who are engaging in blatant
> America-bashing.

#1: I would not have said that to anyone but Thor. Well, okay, actually probably a few other people, but a small, select list.

#2: That was meant to be funny. I thought it was, at least.

I can see why you're upset, and I'm honestly glad you told me. I will work on making clear what I'm being sarcastic about, what I'm serious about, and who, exactly, I'm targeting with my anger.

[leighdb.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

And I'm sorry I snapped at you. It's been a shitty kind of day.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

No problem. I'm an insensitive asshole who occasionally (despite all the inherent logical, practical, and ontological problems with the concept of this happening) overestimates his humour value.

[jl-williams.livejournal.com]

Excuse me, but 51% (the exact number who voted for Dubya) is more than half. It's a majority. MOST, if you will.

As for demonizing an entire country, uh... the public perception of the USA is what it is. I didn't create it. Bush did.

By demonizing an entire country based on the behavior of its stupidest citizens, I might add.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

#1: That's 51% of voters, not 51% of people. If you include those who don't vote in the culpability column, it's much, much more than 51%.
#2: It's not even 51% of voters, as the BLATANT FRAUD would tend to indicate. It's probably close to 50%, though.

[jl-williams.livejournal.com]

To be even more fair, those who "didn't vote" probably include some people who *did* vote, but whose votes were ignored, altered, spoiled or mysteriously unaccounted for by those who felt they voted wrong.

So yeah, it might even be less than half. But that wasn't my point.

I didn't demonize anyone. I may have patronized and belittled them (let's face it: I do this kind of thing all the time, and to be honest, I enjoy it), but I didn't call anybody evil.

Except Bush. Bush is pure evil. He uses the media as his own personal megaphone, telling the general public that whatever he says is true *must* be true -- and I won't say "most" this time, but an abnormally, obscenely lagre group of American citizens have bought so much of what he's selling that they actually look to him for the next piece of crucial truth that will allow them to protect themselves from the dark-skinned assassins who are waiting behind every bush to kidnap, rape and torture them, eat their children and burn down everything that they have built with their hardworking, American hands.

He's a snake oil salesman, and so many people are lining up to buy that it doesn't matter if the rest of the nation is pure, distilled goodness and light because they're not the ones with the bullhorn.

And what comes out of that bullhorn is "America is Freedom, and everyone else is either with us or against us."

EVIL.

As for everyone else, I just called them susceptible. They think what they're told to think. Which is dangerous, no doubt, but not evil.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

Zim is not a demon.

He is an inferiority complex wrapped up in a megalomaniacal ego, with a lack of any understanding that his work actually involves work and that he cannot simply schlep around asking Lovecraftian schoolteachers to hand him all the answers.

ObThought: if a country is garnering a less-than-favourable reputation by doing something that a significant amount of the population would object to (and how you slice the population up between voters, non-voters, the vote-incapable, et. al. is your trouble), then is it better to demonize the country as a whole but abstract entity or all the inhabitants thereof?