I have seen the future.

Our schools have been feminized too much.

Boys are discouraged from writing about what they know. They want to write about cops and robbers, cowboys and indians. Things that involve guns. They want to read books about sports, but all of this is discouraged by the PC crowd who want to make boys be kinder and gentler

It's hard for boys to learn if they're not allowed to burn off excess energy at recess. Even there, the boys are told they have to act more like girls. No cops and robbers because that involves guns. No tag because it makes the person who's "it" feel bad. No dodge-ball because somebody could get hurt.

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I liked this take on it as well.

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G'day, and welcome to my little chunk of the web.

I noticed on your blog (http://www.trommetter.com/log/archives/2006/01/26/not-designed-for-boys/#more-3459) that you don't actually have a child in school at the moment. I'm curious where you get that boys are told they have to act more like girls, or not play tag. I remember being stopped from playing dodgeball a few times at school because the ball we were using was unsafe (they gave us a bigger, softer ball and told us to go at it) and I remember snowball fights being discouraged because of the risks of ice in the eyes, but nothing else was ever stopped.

I'm also curious how you proceed from "not allowed to play games about guns" to "unable to burn off energy", and how you feel that applies specifically to requirements that students behave while in the class.

(Also: The link in your profile to your definition of "Christian Libertarian" is broken. I'm curious - if you don't mind answering, how do you define the term?)

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cloverkill.livejournal.com

this concept that "boys are bred to break rules" has had some strange ways of popping up. like...why hasn't the male birth control pill been marketed/successul? because since (generally) men believe they are "rule breakers" and "rebellious" it would be too difficult to market something like the pill that requires daily responsibility. grrr.

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anton-p-nym.livejournal.com

I have to deal with that reasoning every day as a moderator. Me? I advocate putting a wood chipper in the schoolyard and having teachers dare those who act up to stick their hands in it. All this bleeding heart crap about how the school system punishes [insert gender of speaker's coddled brat] just drives me to antisocial ponderings.

-- Steve'll point out that kids can still run and play during recess, so "burning off energy" is a lame excuse for misbehaviour. Besides, crap like this was starting up even when dodgeball was allowed.

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I actually do have a child in school right now. My girl is in 4th grade.

What page has the broken link?

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Dodgeball isn't allowed?

That's just SAD, man.

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I keep writing nasty things, but I can't quite encapsulate my disgust with you. Males do not inherently like cops, robbers, cowboys, indians, and the like. "Boys" like them because they are enculturated by people like you to like them- encouraged to like them and to enjoy the sorts of movements and ideas that make them appealing. The idea that being genetically male or female dictates your tastes is ludicrous.

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My mistake. I took your comment that you were worried about your son entering school to mean that you didn't have a child already in school.

And it's this link:
http://wiki.trommetter.org/Main/ChristianLibertarian

Linked from your Livejournal profile
http://jasontromm.livejournal.com/profile

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> Our schools have been feminized too much.

Ah. Always intrested to hear how it works in other countries. *pays attention*

> Boys are discouraged from writing about what they know.

Like science, and history, and engineering, and art, and horror?

> They want to write about cops and robbers, cowboys and indians. Things
> that involve guns.

Ah, more personally entertaining stuff. Gotcha.

That's a shame. I never got discouraged from reading any of this kind of thing in school. Perhaps no-one realized that the true crime stuff was true, and assumed that (like all the other stuff I read) it was alright because all the violent death and mutilation and assault was fictional.

At the same time, I never got discouraged from writing anything I felt like writing, and I do think that if anyone was going to object to people writing about murder and crime and self-mutiliation,[1] they would have done so.

> They want to read books about sports, but all of this is discouraged by
> the PC crowd who want to make boys be kinder and gentler

Ahhhhh. I take it you're discussing an effort which is specifically targetted towards boys on a psychological level? I mean, I know the schools I went to demanded that you not destroy property, hurt people, or disrupt class, but I never really got the impression that they cared about whether you *believed* the rules as long as you obeyed them. Healthy preparation for self-sufficient life, and all that.

> It's hard for boys to learn if they're not allowed to burn off excess
> energy at recess.

Really? How odd. I won't say that girls manage, because I've never seen them not be allowed to burn off excess energy at recess. What do they do in the schools you're familiar with, insist people sit around in small groups reading or chatting politely?

> Even there, the boys are told they have to act more like girls. No cops
> and robbers because that involves guns. No tag because it makes the
> person who's "it" feel bad. No dodge-ball because somebody could get
> hurt.

...good god, are you seriously telling me that in your experience, girls *don't* play these games?

My pity to the school system you are familiar with, for its bizarre definition of what girls do, its wretched attempt to redefine the behaviour of half the human population as inherently delicate, non-threatening, physically inactive, and uninterested in conflict, and its attempts to force the entire human population to behave in that strange way.
---
[1] Requisite teenage angst, and all that. Pah.

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That's actually much nicer reasoning than the reasoning I generally hear. I like it.

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It's because women don't matter. Duh.

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jsbowden.livejournal.com

Someone might get hurt. These days, second graders can't even point their fingers at each other and make shooting noises without getting expelled for life. I think the kid in the article is full of shit, but at the same time, that doesn't mean the schools aren't severely broken.

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With that attitude, I hope you never have any sons, they'll all turn out to be wusses. There are inherent biological differences (boys have a lot of testosterone, girls don't) that do influence behavior. Might I recommend you read Bringing Up Boys (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=jasonsbooks%26link_code=xm2%26camp=2025%26creative=165953%26path=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%253fASIN=084235266X%2526tag=jasonsbooks%2526lcode=xm2%2526cID=2025%2526ccmID=165953%2526location=/o/ASIN/084235266X%25253FSubscriptionId=0EMV44A9A5YT1RVDGZ82).

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And here we see the distinction between female/feminine, male/masculine, and sex/gender.

(I generally find a handy shorthand description to be "Menstruation is a common female trait. Pink ruffles are a Western feminine trait." Like most shorthands, it is not entirely accurate, but it does communicate enough of a base concept that I and whoever I'm discussing things with can hash it out from there.)

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If the inherent biological differences influence behaviour, how can you guarantee that his sons will all be wusses?

If the environment people are brought up in influences behaviour, then why aren't boys successfully adapting to a school system that requires them to behave in a particular way?

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Fixed the link:

http://trommetter.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=ChristianLibertarian

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The fact that you use the term "wusses" pretty much tells me everything I need to know. Also, way to link to James Dobson. If I wanted the advice of that right-wing child-abusing lunatic, I'd kill myself- for wanting such advice would be the sign that I was unfit to contribute to society.

Oh, and "boys have a lot of testosterone, girls don't" is ludicrous. Having a lot of testosterone does not make you a rules-breakin' tough guy. Being raised by parents who buy into bullshit gender roles and abuse their children? Yeah, that can't possibly backfire.

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He's a child beater, who cares what he thinks?

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Oooh, Christian Libertarians. Let me guess: When Christ said we should help the poor, he really meant we should turn over all the political power over to the wealthy? And when he said "render unto Caesar", he really meant "get involved in politics and render to Caesar only as much as is necessary to build a massive military-industrial complex", right?

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As someone who attended a number of Christian and public elementary schools (my folks moved around a lot), he's lying.

>>>>>the schools I went to demanded that you not destroy property, hurt people, or disrupt class<<<<<

OMG SEXISM!!!eleven!

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...wow.

First, I haven't read Dobson, so can't speak to that. However, I hesitate to label anyone a child-beater on the basis of having read and recommended a book (unless, you know, it's something like "Dr. Anti-Spock's Practical and Serious Guide to Beating the Shit out of Small People Without Getting Caught"). So I'm not willing to draw the conclusion you did.

Second, an individual expressing statements which seem to me to contradict each other tends to intrigue me, and I am curious to see how he stands behind his comment. Given that I have no reason as of yet to conclude he can't think, I am expecting him to have a logical way to reconcile these statements, and I would like to know what it is.

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Dobson advocates spanking children, and if they cry for more than 2-5 minutes? Spank them again to make them stop crying. I tend to regard all spanking as abuse, but hitting a child and then hitting them again because they won't stop crying? It takes a sick mind to call that healthy.

If our misandronist (and, presumably, misogynist) "friend" here recommends Dobson, this is exactly what he's advocating, and I see no reason to believe he isn't hitting his kids himself.

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