Strangely, I won't be having nightmares about this, because guess who would never ever ever ever consider keeping black widows as pets and thousands of termites, voluntarily, even as "pet" snacks?
I worked in a herpetology lab for three years and I don't believe this. Someone's exaggerating. He might have died of an allergic reaction to a black-widow bite--black widows are hardly ever fatal to adults. (I was bitten last summer, and it was not pleasant but not that big a deal...and I am immunocompromised, to boot.) But as for the other things the officers said they saw...tarantualas don't build webs, termites are not carnivorous--they don't have the enzymes to digest meat--snakes are not scavengers and eat only things they can swallow whole, and spiders don't hang pre-dead meat in their webs. (If a body were decaying, I suppose they might suck the fluids--but they'd be a lot more likely to just catch the termites.)
I suppose it's possible that a snake could eat a finger or limb that had already fallen off the body, but snakes don't eat decaying meat--it would fatally poison them because they digest food so slowly. They can go for long, long periods of time without eating and would be much more likely to do that than eat spoiled meat. What the animals might be more likely to do would be to sip at body fluids if they were desperate for water.
I can believe that a spider might have laid eggs in body cavities. And yeah, a gecko will eat anything, including a dead owner. Most animals seem to stop recognizing buddies as individuals as soon as they die--which makes sense if you have to clear a dead buddy or relative out of your nest and the most efficient way to do it is to eat it. (I always find it a little freaky when one of my pets will eat a dead former friend and then frantically look for that animal for days afterward.)
I will bet that an autopsy shows that he died of a heart attack or something.
Sure sounds like the officers almost did, and I bet that would have colored their perception a bit.
Yeah, I kinda figured a lot of the stuff was exaggerated or a matter of misconception - like the lizards could have eaten them, but people just assumed the snakes did as well. Or it was one of his larger spiders that made a web in the corner of the ceiling, so someone viewing it just assumed it was a tarantula. And maybe the... er... flesh got scattered a bit with the lizards' feeding, and some ended up in webs. (Bleh, this is icky to even discuss. :p )
I would say though that just because adults rarely die of black widow bites, it doesn't mean it *doesn't* happen ever, and he could have been one of the unlucky ones.
I would say though that just because adults rarely die of black widow bites, it doesn't mean it *doesn't* happen ever, and he could have been one of the unlucky ones.
Yes, that's true.
But it's not an instant death--why wouldn't he have gone to a hospital?
Good question about the hospital. They said he was on the couch, maybe he had taken sleeping pills to catch a nap on the sofa or something, for all we know, and was bitten in his sleep. (Black widow bites IIRC are supposed to be hellishly painful, so I doubt he'd just sleep through it normally...) Or maybe he knew people rarely die from them and decided to just tough it out, to avoid the danger of having some of his dangerous pets taken away, since I can't imagine that what he had going on there was totally legal. Are black widows even legal to keep, without a license of some sort?
And yeah, speculating's probably useless, but can still be fun. ;)
No, they're not always painful immediately. I got bitten last summer by what was clearly a black widow in my garage, and the bite didn't hurt overmuch. But I had chills and a hellish headache for a week and muscle tremors for a month.
I would bet on an allergic reaction. Again, not that it matters what I think.
And dude, he wouldn't have had his dangerous animals that could prey on each other free-ranging in the apartment--and he wouldn't have kept all the spiders together because they'll happily prey on each other, so even if one cage opened, only a limited number of species would have gotten out--so I'm really doubting that the police walked in and found a jungle. So there was a boa loose? Big deal. There not dangerous unless either they're 30 feet long or you're a Yorkshire terrier. From the story, it sounds like as soon as he was dead, every animal in the place said, "Ah ha! He's dead! Now's our chance for freedom!" and picked their locks and broke loose. Reptiles and invertebrates are not known for deep thinking and manual dexterity.
I've never kept venomous reptiles and I don't keep reptiles anymore at all, since generally they really aren't very happy in captivity, but the demonization of insects and reptiles, and encouraging fear and disgust of nature, annoys me.
Ah, maybe I'm getting the black widow bite somewhat mixed up with the brown recluse, which is supposed to be horrid, I know.
And yeah, he wouldn't have had them all free-ranging, but who knows with the authorities? They might have considered it unhygienic or whatever even if just some of the snakes and lizards were running loose - or more to the point, he might have been afraid they would have. As for how and why they all were running free... meh, who knows? Maybe he was in the middle of feeding (which is why he got bitten) and hadn't had the chance/forgot to lock the tanks back up, what with the bites and all. As you say though, I guess it's useless to speculate. I wish though that we COULD get the actual story on just what was going on in there, since you're right, the details don't really add up well.
And agreed on the demonization part. And the whole "ew snakes are slimy!" thing. And so on. (Not saying that, y'know, you have to totally love snakes and spiders, especially if you're innately afraid of them, but the demonization? Bah.)
I think they're legal. They're native animals. It's not like you have to import them...they live all over the US and there are almost certainly some in your garage or attic right now. Luckily they're catatonically shy and hate light, so unless you actually sit on one or accidentally stick your hand in a mama spider's web (which I did last summer while packing to move--not happy), they want nothing in the world to do with you.
You know, I noticed the tarantula thing when I read it the first time, but I missed the "ceiling" part and figured that the "nest" didn't mean "web", and that I just didn't know something about tarantula behavior.
If he had fishing spiders or bird spiders, they would have built the mondo webs, although they're a bit of a waste if there are no birds or fish around.
They're hunting spiders, like wolf spiders. They run their prey down. They live in dens and holes.
There was a female living in a hole in the wall at the Museum of Natural History in NY for like 10 years that used to come out to beg people for food, although that was fairly useless as most visitors to museums don't carry crickets, roaches, or live mice with them. But the staff fed her so she generalized it to all humans being possible donators of food.
I don't know how she got there as they are not native to NY. Someone's lost pet, probably. People who own them sometimes stick them in a pocket and carry them around. Personally, that makes my skin crawl a bit, even if I have known some very beautiful and personable pet tarantulas, but to each his or her own.
Well, tarantulas do still have the ability to spin silk, and can make a sort of "nest" out of it given time - mine used to do it all over the gravel in their tanks, and then it'd be a bitch to clean out because it'd also involve stirring up all the damn hair they shed, and I'd itch for days.
But in the ceiling? Now, I'm not saying they couldn't get their in the first place - I've seen the suckers climb straight up the glass sides of tanks (which as I'm sure you know is why you always ALWAYS have a locking top on a spider's tank)... but spinning an actual web there? Not so much.
The heating elements on two tanks containing spiders and their termite snacks had exploded and dislodged the metal tops allowing them to escape.
I'm finding this very hard to believe. I think if the elements had EXPLODED the animals would have been cooked well before they exploded, and would have been killed by the explosion afterward.
Honestly, this whole thing sounds like a practical joke, an urban myth, or the Sun's usual *cough* quality reporting.
And who the hell feeds termites to their spiders anyway? A big spider eats about one small cricket a week. Why would you feed them an insect that reproduces in huge numbers and, if it escapes, eats your house?
Eh, the truth might be out there, but it's been eaten by killer mutant carnivorous termites so we'll never know for sure.
(Stock) pictures of a black widow, termites, and a cobra, as well as the closed body bag being carried out the door (from the outside), but no pics of the actual scene of carnage.
Yeah, I also tought that a Black Widow wouldn't kill an adult human ... and termites ... don't they just eat plant matter.
That being said, if you are dumb enough to keep an animal who can easily kill you (poisonous, huge constrictors, large felines, etc.) you're just asking for something to happen. Zoos yes, pets in your living room, no. With any luck, the guy didn't have time to reproduce.
I wondered about that too. It's gigantically expensive to keep exotic animals alive and healthy and it's a pretty common geek hobby; I know lots of socially-acceptable people who keep reptiles and/or insects, some of them venomous. (The animals, not the people.) Obviously he wasn't that much of a recluse--people knew his pets' names. If I had black widows, I wouldn't let people in to the apartment either, for liability reasons. Hell, when our turtles got full grown, we locked the room in which their tank was located, on the the very slight chance that a small child dangled fingers in the water and a turtle said, "Feeshie for me?" and bit it. And pet turtles are just so well known for their *cough* evil and bloodthirsty behavior.
If I ever drop dead in my house, the local rag will say, "Her giant bloodthirsty goldfish obviouslyleapt out of their tanks and suffocated her, then flew back to their tanks to await the next full moon--and new victims!"
"Hell, when our turtles got full grown, we locked the room in which their tank was located, on the the very slight chance that a small child dangled fingers in the water and a turtle said, "Feeshie for me?" and bit it. And pet turtles are just so well known for their *cough* evil and bloodthirsty behavior."
Well, if you had pet snapping turtles... *shiver*
As for the expense... I dunno, not necessarily. I mean yeah, you've got the initial outlay for tanks and heat rocks and lamps and stuff, but for upkeep you've got... well, depends on the critter. Special feeder mice (around here at least) aren't all that expensive, nor are crickets and mealworms. And it sounds like he bred his own food for some of the critters at least.
And as for the fish... yup, I just know my neon tetras and guppies have it in for me. *looks nervously over shoulder at tank.* I think the only thing saving me thus far is that they can't agree which species gets the honor.
No, just your average red-eared sliders and Mississipi maps. :-) I'm not into keeping dangerous animals. But any animal, even one that's not particularly dangerous, can bite you by accident or in a moment of pique.
Expense--well, maybe I just spend too much on my critters. :-)
I think the only thing I got that would eat me would be my rats, and that would be out of respect, not because they were hungry. But I guess it could be that too... I don't have to worry about salamanders jumping ANYWHERE, hehe.
well, with kids you do actually have to be careful of salmonella. If they're young enough, they can get pretty damn sick from turtle water. Liability is indeed an issue, despite turtles not being aggressive animals. :S
Ours go to the vet and get tested for it. They've never carried it. Still, there are still all kinds of reasons for not letting little kids play with foot-long turtles, especially if they're not your kids. :-)
Hell, we bring our goldfish to the vet. It just needs a vet who does "exotics." Once you get past the living-in-water part, they are treatable like any other animal--you look at their wastes or whatever under a microscope and see what's living in it, and then use whatever drug works on that microorganism.
Oh, btw, any poisonous frogs would be harmless in captivity. I used to keep them, there is no way I would have kept them if they were poisonous in captivity. They lose their toxicity within 3-6 months of living in captivity, so even if he obtained them wild caught, they wouldn't be toxic, assuming he had them for at least that long.
(Sorry to be totally hijacking your post comments by the way oh royal weasel, but I love critters and I love chatting about 'em... I get carried away I guess at times...)
They eat certain types of ants in the wild that are toxic, and the frogs aquire their toxicity from their diet of these ants. I'm not sure what species they eat in the wild, but that's why they lose their toxicity- they aren't eating the same diet in captivity as they do in the wild.
Amusingly, the ants don't make the toxin themselves, either. At least, current theory is they don't. There's some suspicion there's a family of plants out there in the rain forest (there are some suggestions but no firm confirmations) that are providing a whole food chain with defensive toxins.
That IS interesting! I didn't know that, either! Many insects become specialists on plants that other organisms may not be able to prey upon because of their various defenses, so this is certainly not far off.
It's a dietary thing. THey're not poisonous, they're just immune to poison and the things they eat are poisonous.
It's like the Barking Mouse RatPika - they collect food for the winter based on the toxicity of the plants, and they eat the plants in order of poisonousness - the poisons are preservatives, and as the poisons decay into harmlessness, the plants stay ripe. The most poisonous of the plants last the longest, meaning they become edible at about the point the Barking Mouse Rat runs out of the previous plants.
Well, as various people have pointed out, this is obviously a hoax. Being on a first name with the pets of a guy who never invited people home. Meat-eating termites. Lock-picking insects and lizards. The list just goes on and on. This is a classic hoax, but one that is bound to sell like hot coffee in Niflheim.
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 06:45 pm (UTC)Strangely, I won't be having nightmares about this, because guess who would never ever ever ever consider keeping black widows as pets and thousands of termites, voluntarily, even as "pet" snacks?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 06:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 06:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 06:47 pm (UTC)rant
Date: 2007-08-03 07:18 pm (UTC)I suppose it's possible that a snake could eat a finger or limb that had already fallen off the body, but snakes don't eat decaying meat--it would fatally poison them because they digest food so slowly. They can go for long, long periods of time without eating and would be much more likely to do that than eat spoiled meat. What the animals might be more likely to do would be to sip at body fluids if they were desperate for water.
I can believe that a spider might have laid eggs in body cavities. And yeah, a gecko will eat anything, including a dead owner. Most animals seem to stop recognizing buddies as individuals as soon as they die--which makes sense if you have to clear a dead buddy or relative out of your nest and the most efficient way to do it is to eat it. (I always find it a little freaky when one of my pets will eat a dead former friend and then frantically look for that animal for days afterward.)
I will bet that an autopsy shows that he died of a heart attack or something.
Sure sounds like the officers almost did, and I bet that would have colored their perception a bit.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 07:23 pm (UTC)I would say though that just because adults rarely die of black widow bites, it doesn't mean it *doesn't* happen ever, and he could have been one of the unlucky ones.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 07:46 pm (UTC)Yes, that's true.
But it's not an instant death--why wouldn't he have gone to a hospital?
Oh well. Probably not much point to speculating.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 08:19 pm (UTC)And yeah, speculating's probably useless, but can still be fun. ;)
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 09:40 pm (UTC)I would bet on an allergic reaction. Again, not that it matters what I think.
And dude, he wouldn't have had his dangerous animals that could prey on each other free-ranging in the apartment--and he wouldn't have kept all the spiders together because they'll happily prey on each other, so even if one cage opened, only a limited number of species would have gotten out--so I'm really doubting that the police walked in and found a jungle. So there was a boa loose? Big deal. There not dangerous unless either they're 30 feet long or you're a Yorkshire terrier. From the story, it sounds like as soon as he was dead, every animal in the place said, "Ah ha! He's dead! Now's our chance for freedom!" and picked their locks and broke loose. Reptiles and invertebrates are not known for deep thinking and manual dexterity.
I've never kept venomous reptiles and I don't keep reptiles anymore at all, since generally they really aren't very happy in captivity, but the demonization of insects and reptiles, and encouraging fear and disgust of nature, annoys me.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 10:11 pm (UTC)And yeah, he wouldn't have had them all free-ranging, but who knows with the authorities? They might have considered it unhygienic or whatever even if just some of the snakes and lizards were running loose - or more to the point, he might have been afraid they would have. As for how and why they all were running free... meh, who knows? Maybe he was in the middle of feeding (which is why he got bitten) and hadn't had the chance/forgot to lock the tanks back up, what with the bites and all. As you say though, I guess it's useless to speculate. I wish though that we COULD get the actual story on just what was going on in there, since you're right, the details don't really add up well.
And agreed on the demonization part. And the whole "ew snakes are slimy!" thing. And so on. (Not saying that, y'know, you have to totally love snakes and spiders, especially if you're innately afraid of them, but the demonization? Bah.)
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 09:55 pm (UTC)Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 07:27 pm (UTC)Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 07:47 pm (UTC)Tarantulas Take Over New York Museum
Date: 2007-08-03 10:00 pm (UTC)There was a female living in a hole in the wall at the Museum of Natural History in NY for like 10 years that used to come out to beg people for food, although that was fairly useless as most visitors to museums don't carry crickets, roaches, or live mice with them. But the staff fed her so she generalized it to all humans being possible donators of food.
I don't know how she got there as they are not native to NY. Someone's lost pet, probably. People who own them sometimes stick them in a pocket and carry them around. Personally, that makes my skin crawl a bit, even if I have known some very beautiful and personable pet tarantulas, but to each his or her own.
Re: Tarantulas Take Over New York Museum
Date: 2007-08-03 10:06 pm (UTC)But in the ceiling? Now, I'm not saying they couldn't get their in the first place - I've seen the suckers climb straight up the glass sides of tanks (which as I'm sure you know is why you always ALWAYS have a locking top on a spider's tank)... but spinning an actual web there? Not so much.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 11:01 pm (UTC)Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-03 10:54 pm (UTC)Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-04 12:34 am (UTC)I'm finding this very hard to believe. I think if the elements had EXPLODED the animals would have been cooked well before they exploded, and would have been killed by the explosion afterward.
Honestly, this whole thing sounds like a practical joke, an urban myth, or the Sun's usual *cough* quality reporting.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-04 12:35 am (UTC)Which is awesome. Shush.
Re: rant
Date: 2007-08-04 02:20 am (UTC)Eh, the truth might be out there, but it's been eaten by killer mutant carnivorous termites so we'll never know for sure.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 07:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 07:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 07:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 01:04 pm (UTC)I certainly never do. Fortunately, my brain is already broken enough that it just flops limply around with the punches.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 09:19 pm (UTC)That being said, if you are dumb enough to keep an animal who can easily kill you (poisonous, huge constrictors, large felines, etc.) you're just asking for something to happen. Zoos yes, pets in your living room, no. With any luck, the guy didn't have time to reproduce.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 09:25 pm (UTC)That really was a super-awesome story. I love the tarantula building a nest in a ceiling corner! that's one freaky tarantula. she's kinky.
Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-03 09:50 pm (UTC)If I ever drop dead in my house, the local rag will say, "Her giant bloodthirsty goldfish obviouslyleapt out of their tanks and suffocated her, then flew back to their tanks to await the next full moon--and new victims!"
Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-03 10:03 pm (UTC)Well, if you had pet snapping turtles... *shiver*
As for the expense... I dunno, not necessarily. I mean yeah, you've got the initial outlay for tanks and heat rocks and lamps and stuff, but for upkeep you've got... well, depends on the critter. Special feeder mice (around here at least) aren't all that expensive, nor are crickets and mealworms. And it sounds like he bred his own food for some of the critters at least.
And as for the fish... yup, I just know my neon tetras and guppies have it in for me. *looks nervously over shoulder at tank.* I think the only thing saving me thus far is that they can't agree which species gets the honor.
Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-03 10:10 pm (UTC)Expense--well, maybe I just spend too much on my critters. :-)
Yeah, gotta watch those killer gups.
Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-03 11:05 pm (UTC)Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-04 06:47 am (UTC)Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-04 08:58 am (UTC)Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-04 10:38 pm (UTC)Re: Vampire Dandelions Suck Baby's Breath
Date: 2007-08-05 01:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 10:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 11:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 11:31 pm (UTC)Any idea why they actually lose the toxicity?
(Sorry to be totally hijacking your post comments by the way oh royal weasel, but I love critters and I love chatting about 'em... I get carried away I guess at times...)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-03 11:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 12:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 02:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 12:33 am (UTC)It's like the
Barking Mouse RatPika - they collect food for the winter based on the toxicity of the plants, and they eat the plants in order of poisonousness - the poisons are preservatives, and as the poisons decay into harmlessness, the plants stay ripe. The most poisonous of the plants last the longest, meaning they become edible at about the point the Barking Mouse Rat runs out of the previous plants.(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 08:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 09:06 am (UTC)This is why frogs do not make good tires.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-08-04 01:29 am (UTC)