Which is, I should point out, two years older than the age of consent in some cases (which this case would not be) in Canada.
Most provinces require people be at least 16 to get married but in the case of British Columbia all I could find is that if someone is under 19, their parents have to sign off on the marriage. I am sure there's a lower bound there but I cannot find it.
29 (1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3), a marriage of any person under 16 years of age must not be solemnized, and a licence must not be issued.
(2) If, on application to the Supreme Court, a marriage is shown to be expedient and in the interests of the parties, the court may, in its discretion, make an order authorizing the solemnization of and the issuing of a licence for the marriage of any person under 16 years of age.
When I last took law, it was 12, in Quebec, for girls, if the parents approved. 14 for boys with parental approval, and add 2 years to both without parental approval.
That's not the point.
The point is Warren Jeffs, and the "Dude, she's *14*" is a quote and a reference that is funny because, among other things, Jeffs was facing trial for raping 14-year-olds and younger.
It's worse. The FLDS does not conduct legal marriages, only church marriages. Therefore there is no exception for whether or not the girl is "married."
It gets better. Jeffs is one arm of the FLDS; the other arm has a group in Bounty, BC. the fifth estate interviewed an elder who had, it was rumored thirty or so wives (he neither confirmed nor denied the number, only saying to Hana Gartner that he had enough wives that he didn't have to be bothered by another man's).
Hana whipped out some documents. Asked if he knew the women named in the docs. By his face, he did. Turns out two of his wives took a road trip to Vancouver and legally married each other!
Ok, I'm a bit confused, shouldn't the step-father, who arranged it, the mother, who encouraged it, and the cousin, who actually had sex with her, also be in trouble here? Or are they and I didn't read some other news story? And is there something else that Jeffs did that was horribly wrong besides marrying some cousins, one of which was seriously underaged and unwilling? Cause I mean, I kinda feel like the step-father setting it up is worse than the guy who actually married the two.. But I dunno..
You're obviously unfamiliar with Warren Jeffs and the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs)
And that's the Wikipedia article. Look for some of the articles about what happens to teenaged *boys* from that church. Consider, for a moment, your demographic needs if all the men of the church are each going to have multiple prebuscent wives - given a 50/50 birth rate, what happens to all the boys?
Oh, shit. Thanks for the fill in. Still don't think that what the rest of the family in that situation was right... I mean, still, that's just so fucked up. Poor girl.
So uh... What does happen to all the boys? I'm considering all the possibilities here, is there a definite answer? If so, tell me so I can stop thinking of all the bad ones...
They get thrown out, usually - after spending their entire lives to this point *knowing* that the only way to heaven is to become a church elder of the One True Church, *knowing* that excommunication ruins their chances at having any worth in life, and being taken away from their homes and their families and everyone who knows them refusing to talk to them at all for fear of getting the same punishment themselves.
They wind up, pretty fucked up, as young abandoned homeless teenagers dumped in the nearest "big city" away from their home. What do you THINK happens to them?
Yep, you're just thinking faster than the judicial system can act. After testifying in Warren Jeffs' trial, the 'husband,' Allen Glade Steed, has been charged with rape.
I'm actually more annoyed with the parents' decisions. No one will really know what goes on between two people in the bedroom, do you believe the man or the girl? But it pisses me off when parents don't take their childrens' best interest to heart...
Agreed. It seems to me that if she's underage, then she is her parent's responsibilty. To allow this, let alone set it up, has to be some sort of abuse. I understand the church is nuts, condones this, and that's basically what Jeffs is on trial for, but shouldn't the state be moving against the parents now? My girlfriend works for Child Protective Services here in AZ. I will definately be bringing this up with her tonight.
By the way, AZ is in line to prosecute Jeffs for similiar charges, but may have to wait until the Feds are done with him (he was on the FBI most wanted list and failed to turn himself in, so the Feds are going for felony flight).
There are lots of things that should be de facto abuse. Like naming a child Dakota. But many things like this tend to get shielded by an unwillingness to prosecute illegal actions that were taken in the name of the Invisible Sky Wizard.
Just to be clear, Jeffs isn't what you'd consider Mormon. Mormons are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. His church, Fundamentalist LDS is a break off that has no connection.
That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think? The FLDS, while definitely a splinter group with no formal ratification by the mainline LDS sect, shares the basic doctrines and tenets of the LDS church and its founders, and practices several behaviors that were once open and approved by the mainline LDS sect. (The RLDS branch, I will note, explicitly rejected the doctrines regarding plural marriage and has had a lot less trouble through the years because of it.)
The only thing separating Jeffs and the FLDS from being "real" Mormons is the passage of time. Many of their doctrines are *still* quietly acknowledged by leaders in the mainline LDS sect as being true Mormon doctrine that has only been set aside for a temporary period of time, or whose change came about oh-so-coincidentally timed to prevent federal measures (cf. plural marriage and the inclusion of non-whites to the priesthood).
It's no different than some of those whackjob ultra-rightwing neocon Fundies that haunt the Christian church. While their actions may proclaim them to be no sort of Christian, they teach and do things that the official Christian churches (Catholic, Mainline Protestant, Evangelical, and Charismatic) were all too willing to say and do not too long ago.
It's not so easy for a community of any type -- faith, political, geographic, or online -- to distance itself from the people that embarrass it, especially when those people are engaging in practices that were once common and encouraged in the community. One doesn't discharge one's responsibilities quiet that easily.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 07:02 pm (UTC)Most provinces require people be at least 16 to get married but in the case of British Columbia all I could find is that if someone is under 19, their parents have to sign off on the marriage. I am sure there's a lower bound there but I cannot find it.
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/M/96282_01.htm
Ah, it's usually 16, except in
29 (1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3), a marriage of any person under 16 years of age must not be solemnized, and a licence must not be issued.
(2) If, on application to the Supreme Court, a marriage is shown to be expedient and in the interests of the parties, the court may, in its discretion, make an order authorizing the solemnization of and the issuing of a licence for the marriage of any person under 16 years of age.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 07:08 pm (UTC)Now where did I put my passport?
Date: 2007-09-26 10:22 pm (UTC)Click for full size.
Re: Now where did I put my passport?
Date: 2007-09-27 12:09 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 07:20 pm (UTC)That's not the point.
The point is Warren Jeffs, and the "Dude, she's *14*" is a quote and a reference that is funny because, among other things, Jeffs was facing trial for raping 14-year-olds and younger.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 07:28 pm (UTC)It gets better. Jeffs is one arm of the FLDS; the other arm has a group in Bounty, BC. the fifth estate interviewed an elder who had, it was rumored thirty or so wives (he neither confirmed nor denied the number, only saying to Hana Gartner that he had enough wives that he didn't have to be bothered by another man's).
Hana whipped out some documents. Asked if he knew the women named in the docs. By his face, he did. Turns out two of his wives took a road trip to Vancouver and legally married each other!
Yes. I snarked.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 08:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 08:36 pm (UTC)And that's the Wikipedia article. Look for some of the articles about what happens to teenaged *boys* from that church. Consider, for a moment, your demographic needs if all the men of the church are each going to have multiple prebuscent wives - given a 50/50 birth rate, what happens to all the boys?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 08:40 pm (UTC)So uh... What does happen to all the boys? I'm considering all the possibilities here, is there a definite answer? If so, tell me so I can stop thinking of all the bad ones...
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 08:50 pm (UTC)They wind up, pretty fucked up, as young abandoned homeless teenagers dumped in the nearest "big city" away from their home. What do you THINK happens to them?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20040828/ai_n11472255
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy250.html
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 09:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 09:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 09:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 09:16 pm (UTC)By the way, AZ is in line to prosecute Jeffs for similiar charges, but may have to wait until the Feds are done with him (he was on the FBI most wanted list and failed to turn himself in, so the Feds are going for felony flight).
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 12:10 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-26 09:12 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 12:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 01:19 am (UTC)The only thing separating Jeffs and the FLDS from being "real" Mormons is the passage of time. Many of their doctrines are *still* quietly acknowledged by leaders in the mainline LDS sect as being true Mormon doctrine that has only been set aside for a temporary period of time, or whose change came about oh-so-coincidentally timed to prevent federal measures (cf. plural marriage and the inclusion of non-whites to the priesthood).
It's no different than some of those whackjob ultra-rightwing neocon Fundies that haunt the Christian church. While their actions may proclaim them to be no sort of Christian, they teach and do things that the official Christian churches (Catholic, Mainline Protestant, Evangelical, and Charismatic) were all too willing to say and do not too long ago.
It's not so easy for a community of any type -- faith, political, geographic, or online -- to distance itself from the people that embarrass it, especially when those people are engaging in practices that were once common and encouraged in the community. One doesn't discharge one's responsibilities quiet that easily.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 02:00 am (UTC)