Agreed. I was hoping for sympathetic pregnancy or a surgically implanted womb, but I got transgendered.
Call me crazy, but it just doesn't make me uncomfortable. I mean, seeing a pregnant man is weird, but once I knew the situation, my only real questions were biological (like, if he had the whole surgery and has a penis, how did the period work? Did he bleed from the dick? that's fucked up).
I wonder if I'm well adjusted, or if I'm the odd one for not caring about his gender.
i don't see a problem with this either. maybe we are just becoming more tolerant with the generations.. the doctors were prolly oldschool. that's why i was disappointed this wasn't a REAL man giving birth, lol. but you gotta think about it this way, i guess, he FEELS as if he is a real man, that's why he is transgendered. If you think about it, a transgender feeling as though he is really a man, and is just taking advantage of the fact that he used to have some woman parts that happen to still work... i mean, i'm sure there are many men that would find it amazing to be able to give birth. you don't have to be formally a woman to feel that way, i'd imagine. kinda like men who wish they could breastfeed.
"I thought it was really a man" Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that? :S
"is a transgender" try "is transgendered" or "is a trans man". It sounds dehumanizing to call him "a transgender" as though trans was a sex in itself, rather than an identifier. This is worsened by your use of "that" rather than "who".
I really am sorry for going all PC-police, and I'm sure you meant no offense, but language is a very tricky issue for transgendered people. It's hard to feel respected and understood when the language is working against you, you know? And how should folks outside the trans or queer communities know how to navigate the language unless well-meaning but hopelessly square grammarnistas such as myself point things out?
Seriously...make up your mind, dude. Er...dudette. It's like someone saying they're gay except for the occasional desire to fuck a member of the opposite sex. *sigh*
You know, I fully support that person's right to do what that person is doing with that person's body, but that doesn't mean I fucking understand why they are doing it.
Yes, I know there are many things in life like that, but this one pegs the WTFometer with an audible thunk.
Having done a quick check of a few dictionaries "Man" is defined in most places as "Adult Male".
There's no scientific or cultural concensus dividing "Man" from "Male" last I checked, and pretending there is one so you can lambast people doesn't make it true.
You're conflating gender identity and sexual orientation.
Also, there are people who self-identify as gay (or straight) and sometimes desire to fuck a member of the non-preferred gender. I don't see why that's a problem or sigh-worthy.
Last I checked, not having read any of the recent academic literature on sex and gender doesn't mean you can pretend you know what you're talking about.
In other words, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there, and you've showed how much you don't know by attempting to call me out.
You may want to start by quickly checking a few encyclopedia entries on gender, gender identity, sex, and sexuality. Last I checked, the Encyclopedia Brittanica does make a distinction between man and male. While you're there, do a quick Google scholar search on gender, gender identity, gender and culture, sexuality, sex, femininity, and masculinity. Because when I say science, that's what I mean--scientific, peer-reviewed, research articles.
After that, you may want to read Gender Inequality: Feminist Theories and Politics by Judith Lorber just so you can get introductory grasp on gender and sexuality. You may also want to read her other three books--Gender Trouble, Paradoxes of Gender, and Gendered Bodies especially considering that she, unlike you, actually has a PhD on the subject matter.
Following that, you may want to read Anne Fausto-Sterling's article "Sexing the Body: How Biologists Construct Sexuality," and then the article "Doing Gender" written by Candace West and Don Zimmerman. After that, you may also want to check out the book Masculinities by R.W. Connell.
Yes, I have read all those texts and many more. Yes, I'm doing my graduate thesis on gender. Yes, you just shoved your foot in your mouth.
Do a little research next time before you make ass out of yourself.
Woman and man are gender identities. Gender identity is how one self-identifies as a man or a woman, regardless of that individual's biological sex. For example, in the article referenced above, the individual has a gender identity as a man despite being biologically female.
This makes more sense when you consider that gender is a social construction and the differential behaviors assigned to gender have less to do with innate differences and more to do with customs and social conditioning. That's why different cultures have different ideas of what it means to be a man or a woman and why definitions of masculinity and femininity have changed over time.
In the social sciences, the designations female and male refer primarily to biological sex, that is if one has the chromosomes XX or XY.
To put it simply, one is born male or female. One learns how to be a man or woman.
It's sigh-worthy because of the double standard. A "straight" man has a single gay experience and he is pretty much labeled as a gay man in denial...yet a gay man can have sex with a member of the opposite sex and still be considered gay?
Either way it doesn't make much of a difference, but I had a feeling you'd bite:-)
I'm not sure what double standard you're referring other than the one among our peculiar group of friends.
I believe people should determine their own sexual and gender identities. It's not your place or anyone else's to decide what they are or what they are not.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:44 am (UTC)Call me crazy, but it just doesn't make me uncomfortable. I mean, seeing a pregnant man is weird, but once I knew the situation, my only real questions were biological (like, if he had the whole surgery and has a penis, how did the period work? Did he bleed from the dick? that's fucked up).
I wonder if I'm well adjusted, or if I'm the odd one for not caring about his gender.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:51 am (UTC)Also "awh, no cool future tech"
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:53 am (UTC)You often post cool stuff, but this is in the top 1% of coolness for what it says about gender, sexuality, and simple humanity.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:55 am (UTC)Man and woman are gender identities and gender identities are socially constructed.
He isn't, however, biologically male.
It's an important distinction.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 03:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:31 am (UTC)Still, on a scale of 1-10 for cool? This is a 12.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:36 am (UTC)Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that? :S
"is a transgender"
try "is transgendered" or "is a trans man". It sounds dehumanizing to call him "a transgender" as though trans was a sex in itself, rather than an identifier. This is worsened by your use of "that" rather than "who".
I really am sorry for going all PC-police, and I'm sure you meant no offense, but language is a very tricky issue for transgendered people. It's hard to feel respected and understood when the language is working against you, you know? And how should folks outside the trans or queer communities know how to navigate the language unless well-meaning but hopelessly square grammarnistas such as myself point things out?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:35 am (UTC)And by accurate, I mean scientific.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:02 am (UTC)Seriously...make up your mind, dude. Er...dudette. It's like someone saying they're gay except for the occasional desire to fuck a member of the opposite sex. *sigh*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:04 am (UTC)So if someone said he is a real "biological" woman giving birth, would that make sense?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 08:30 am (UTC)Yes, I know there are many things in life like that, but this one pegs the WTFometer with an audible thunk.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 09:12 am (UTC)Having done a quick check of a few dictionaries "Man" is defined in most places as "Adult Male".
There's no scientific or cultural concensus dividing "Man" from "Male" last I checked, and pretending there is one so you can lambast people doesn't make it true.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 09:13 am (UTC)Do you never have conflicting drives?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 09:54 am (UTC)You're conflating gender identity and sexual orientation.
Also, there are people who self-identify as gay (or straight) and sometimes desire to fuck a member of the non-preferred gender. I don't see why that's a problem or sigh-worthy.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 09:56 am (UTC)In other words, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there, and you've showed how much you don't know by attempting to call me out.
You may want to start by quickly checking a few encyclopedia entries on gender, gender identity, sex, and sexuality. Last I checked, the Encyclopedia Brittanica does make a distinction between man and male. While you're there, do a quick Google scholar search on gender, gender identity, gender and culture, sexuality, sex, femininity, and masculinity. Because when I say science, that's what I mean--scientific, peer-reviewed, research articles.
After that, you may want to read Gender Inequality: Feminist Theories and Politics by Judith Lorber just so you can get introductory grasp on gender and sexuality. You may also want to read her other three books--Gender Trouble, Paradoxes of Gender, and Gendered Bodies especially considering that she, unlike you, actually has a PhD on the subject matter.
Following that, you may want to read Anne Fausto-Sterling's article "Sexing the Body: How Biologists Construct Sexuality," and then the article "Doing Gender" written by Candace West and Don Zimmerman. After that, you may also want to check out the book Masculinities by R.W. Connell.
Yes, I have read all those texts and many more. Yes, I'm doing my graduate thesis on gender. Yes, you just shoved your foot in your mouth.
Do a little research next time before you make ass out of yourself.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 09:57 am (UTC)Woman and man are gender identities. Gender identity is how one self-identifies as a man or a woman, regardless of that individual's biological sex. For example, in the article referenced above, the individual has a gender identity as a man despite being biologically female.
This makes more sense when you consider that gender is a social construction and the differential behaviors assigned to gender have less to do with innate differences and more to do with customs and social conditioning. That's why different cultures have different ideas of what it means to be a man or a woman and why definitions of masculinity and femininity have changed over time.
In the social sciences, the designations female and male refer primarily to biological sex, that is if one has the chromosomes XX or XY.
To put it simply, one is born male or female. One learns how to be a man or woman.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 10:06 am (UTC)Either way it doesn't make much of a difference, but I had a feeling you'd bite:-)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 10:08 am (UTC)I believe people should determine their own sexual and gender identities. It's not your place or anyone else's to decide what they are or what they are not.