You know..I'm not sure how to feel about this one. I'm pro-choice (male, mind you, since I think that has some bearing when it comes to handing out opinions on abortion) but I tend to view abortion more as a necessary evil.
I really don't know that I could perform abortions for a living. It'd be like euthanizing animals, it would just wear me down, probably in a short while.
So I give the guy props for doing a job that I would have the stomach for, but there's something about the article that didn't sit right with me. Like the quote about the medical student thanking him for the abortion and how she wouldn't be where she was if it wasn't for him. Something about that irks me.... got knocked up and a baby will complicate your life? Yay abortion! Obviously I'm reading a lot into that short blurb, but that just proves it's a touchy issue that folks are emotional about, including me.
"Let me tell you about an abortion patient I looked after recently. She was 18 years old, and 18-19 weeks pregnant. She came from a very strict, religious family. She was an only daughter, and had several brothers. She was East Indian Hindu and her boyfriend was East Indian Muslim, which did not please her parents. She told me if her parents found out she was pregnant she would be disowned and kicked out of the family home. She also told me that her brothers would murder her boyfriend, and I believed her. About an hour after her operation I and my nurse saw her and her boyfriend walking out of the clinic hand in hand, and I said to my nurse, 'Look at that. We saved two lives today.'"
Since i commented on the last one: this is exactly why I'm pro-choice.
I am one of those people who thinks that if you can't deal with birth control you shouldn't have sex. And if you can't deal with teh ramifications of sex, you're also not mature enough to deal with it.
I like to think that most abortions are last resorts and that many should be performed to save the mother's life or in cases like rape and the like.
However, the bottom line is that even if you were to legislate that, we'd get the situation he's describing, where women are taking matters into their own hands (or their lovers and family are) and women and children will die.
It's a hard enough choice without having to make it in an alley. I'll always be pro choice, period.
"It's a hard enough choice without having to make it in an alley." Can you submit that to national pro choice groups please? That is an awesome slogan.
I don't know that you're going to get the same intense reaction on this topic. It seems most of your friends agree, at least to some degree, on the necessity of options.
Extremism is the enemy, no matter what the field. There will always be exceptions, grey areas and landscapes to walk in and call home for the marginals.
Something about that irks me.... got knocked up and a baby will complicate your life? Yay abortion!
Yeah, she should totally have let an accidental pregnancy disrupt her life so that there's one less doctor in the world rather than having an abortion and reproducing later, when she has the resources to care for the child properly without jeopardising her career! How selfish and irresponsible of her!
(Funny. I whined to myself about pico not being available on this new installation of Linux the department gave me until someone pointed me in the direction of nano, and then off I was and very happy. But people tend to threaten bad things to me when I speak out loud of how I enjoy simple text editors sometimes.)
I love nano/pico for the fact that they behave roughly like modern text editors. They also make a great comedy third option when people ask "vi or emacs?" :)
Again, the only information that was given was the doctor's anecdote. Without further info, it's hard for me to say. I just said what kind of feeling the story gave me.
You have to understand, I view abortion as the taking of a human life. I don't think of it is as something that should be done without *very* good cause.
I don't know whether the woman in question had resources to care for the child or not. I can only wish it hadn't been necessary, and I hope that she took all precautions to avoid pregnancy.
In all honesty, I view the very act of having (heterosexual) sex as accepting the possible consequences. Don't stick your penis in a vagina, or let a penis in your vagina, unless you're prepared to take care of a child. But that's just my standard, and I don't expect everyone to follow it.
So at one point are complications too much? Having to drop off of college? Having to explain to your parents what happened? Having to spend time and money on the care of a child instead of parties?
I don't like abortion as a means of birth control. It's the taking of a life, or at least the taking of a potential life. Sometimes it's the best alternative. A better one is not fucking around unless you're ready to take responsiblity for it.
Another abortion topic that has always made me twitch a bit is father's rights..as in, does he have any?
You have to understand, I view abortion as the taking of a human life.
So can I assume that you support abortion clinic bombings? 'cause if you really believed that abortion is killing a human being legalised abortion has killed more huamn beings than the Holocaust- more than 3 Holocausts in total.
In all honesty, I view the very act of having (heterosexual) sex as accepting the possible consequences.
And like most people who use "be responsible" as code for "dirty sluts deserve to have their lives ruined", you insist that "the consequences" means having children, rather than creating a pregnancy which must be dealt with one way or the other. The med student did, in fact, deal with the consequences- she did the responsible thing and had an abortion.
You're being argumentative and insulting, please stop. I don't have a problem exchanging ideas with someone that disagress. I enjoy it..but I'm not going to waste time on a devolving conversation.
If you make the assumption that I support clinic bombings, you'd be wrong. There are times when I feel that ending a life is justified, usually when it's a quality of life issue. In this case, I probably should have said that I view abortion as the taking of a potential life. Yes, that woman might have become a doctor by having an abortion, but what *might* have her child become? Neither is a certainty. Hell, she could have wound up dropping out of med school, abortion or no.
And I don't insist on anything, I've never told someone that they had to have an abortion or not have one, nor would I. When my ex-girlfriend found out that she was pregnant after we broke up, I supported her in whatever choice she wanted to make, but did not suggest an abortion. I was more than prepared to give up the life I was accustomed to and support a child, by myself if necessary. In my case, she had a miscarriage.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 04:59 pm (UTC)I really don't know that I could perform abortions for a living. It'd be like euthanizing animals, it would just wear me down, probably in a short while.
So I give the guy props for doing a job that I would have the stomach for, but there's something about the article that didn't sit right with me. Like the quote about the medical student thanking him for the abortion and how she wouldn't be where she was if it wasn't for him. Something about that irks me.... got knocked up and a baby will complicate your life? Yay abortion! Obviously I'm reading a lot into that short blurb, but that just proves it's a touchy issue that folks are emotional about, including me.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:05 pm (UTC)"Let me tell you about an abortion patient I looked after recently. She was 18 years old, and 18-19 weeks pregnant. She came from a very strict, religious family. She was an only daughter, and had several brothers. She was East Indian Hindu and her boyfriend was East Indian Muslim, which did not please her parents. She told me if her parents found out she was pregnant she would be disowned and kicked out of the family home. She also told me that her brothers would murder her boyfriend, and I believed her. About an hour after her operation I and my nurse saw her and her boyfriend walking out of the clinic hand in hand, and I said to my nurse, 'Look at that. We saved two lives today.'"
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:24 pm (UTC)I am one of those people who thinks that if you can't deal with birth control you shouldn't have sex. And if you can't deal with teh ramifications of sex, you're also not mature enough to deal with it.
I like to think that most abortions are last resorts and that many should be performed to save the mother's life or in cases like rape and the like.
However, the bottom line is that even if you were to legislate that, we'd get the situation he's describing, where women are taking matters into their own hands (or their lovers and family are) and women and children will die.
It's a hard enough choice without having to make it in an alley. I'll always be pro choice, period.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:31 pm (UTC)Can you submit that to national pro choice groups please? That is an awesome slogan.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:40 pm (UTC)Extremism is the enemy, no matter what the field. There will always be exceptions, grey areas and landscapes to walk in and call home for the marginals.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:22 pm (UTC)Yeah, she should totally have let an accidental pregnancy disrupt her life so that there's one less doctor in the world rather than having an abortion and reproducing later, when she has the resources to care for the child properly without jeopardising her career! How selfish and irresponsible of her!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:52 pm (UTC)> your life? Yay abortion!
Well, *yeah*. Especially given the alternatives.
(Even leaving aside the question of how she got pregnant, when she got pregnant, how much of it was her choice, and what precautions she took.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:55 pm (UTC)You have to understand, I view abortion as the taking of a human life. I don't think of it is as something that should be done without *very* good cause.
I don't know whether the woman in question had resources to care for the child or not. I can only wish it hadn't been necessary, and I hope that she took all precautions to avoid pregnancy.
In all honesty, I view the very act of having (heterosexual) sex as accepting the possible consequences. Don't stick your penis in a vagina, or let a penis in your vagina, unless you're prepared to take care of a child. But that's just my standard, and I don't expect everyone to follow it.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:58 pm (UTC)I don't like abortion as a means of birth control. It's the taking of a life, or at least the taking of a potential life. Sometimes it's the best alternative. A better one is not fucking around unless you're ready to take responsiblity for it.
Another abortion topic that has always made me twitch a bit is father's rights..as in, does he have any?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:01 pm (UTC)So can I assume that you support abortion clinic bombings? 'cause if you really believed that abortion is killing a human being legalised abortion has killed more huamn beings than the Holocaust- more than 3 Holocausts in total.
In all honesty, I view the very act of having (heterosexual) sex as accepting the possible consequences.
And like most people who use "be responsible" as code for "dirty sluts deserve to have their lives ruined", you insist that "the consequences" means having children, rather than creating a pregnancy which must be dealt with one way or the other. The med student did, in fact, deal with the consequences- she did the responsible thing and had an abortion.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:07 pm (UTC)Well tought shit, because that's exactly what it is. It controls birth.
A better one is not fucking around unless you're ready to take responsiblity for it.
Getting an abortion is almost by definition more frequently a responsible thing to do than not.
This "punish the sluts!" thing is really offensive.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:08 pm (UTC)If you make the assumption that I support clinic bombings, you'd be wrong. There are times when I feel that ending a life is justified, usually when it's a quality of life issue. In this case, I probably should have said that I view abortion as the taking of a potential life. Yes, that woman might have become a doctor by having an abortion, but what *might* have her child become? Neither is a certainty. Hell, she could have wound up dropping out of med school, abortion or no.
And I don't insist on anything, I've never told someone that they had to have an abortion or not have one, nor would I. When my ex-girlfriend found out that she was pregnant after we broke up, I supported her in whatever choice she wanted to make, but did not suggest an abortion. I was more than prepared to give up the life I was accustomed to and support a child, by myself if necessary. In my case, she had a miscarriage.