You know..I'm not sure how to feel about this one. I'm pro-choice (male, mind you, since I think that has some bearing when it comes to handing out opinions on abortion) but I tend to view abortion more as a necessary evil.
I really don't know that I could perform abortions for a living. It'd be like euthanizing animals, it would just wear me down, probably in a short while.
So I give the guy props for doing a job that I would have the stomach for, but there's something about the article that didn't sit right with me. Like the quote about the medical student thanking him for the abortion and how she wouldn't be where she was if it wasn't for him. Something about that irks me.... got knocked up and a baby will complicate your life? Yay abortion! Obviously I'm reading a lot into that short blurb, but that just proves it's a touchy issue that folks are emotional about, including me.
Something about that irks me.... got knocked up and a baby will complicate your life? Yay abortion!
Yeah, she should totally have let an accidental pregnancy disrupt her life so that there's one less doctor in the world rather than having an abortion and reproducing later, when she has the resources to care for the child properly without jeopardising her career! How selfish and irresponsible of her!
Again, the only information that was given was the doctor's anecdote. Without further info, it's hard for me to say. I just said what kind of feeling the story gave me.
You have to understand, I view abortion as the taking of a human life. I don't think of it is as something that should be done without *very* good cause.
I don't know whether the woman in question had resources to care for the child or not. I can only wish it hadn't been necessary, and I hope that she took all precautions to avoid pregnancy.
In all honesty, I view the very act of having (heterosexual) sex as accepting the possible consequences. Don't stick your penis in a vagina, or let a penis in your vagina, unless you're prepared to take care of a child. But that's just my standard, and I don't expect everyone to follow it.
So at one point are complications too much? Having to drop off of college? Having to explain to your parents what happened? Having to spend time and money on the care of a child instead of parties?
I don't like abortion as a means of birth control. It's the taking of a life, or at least the taking of a potential life. Sometimes it's the best alternative. A better one is not fucking around unless you're ready to take responsiblity for it.
Another abortion topic that has always made me twitch a bit is father's rights..as in, does he have any?
Just remember that right now, an undisclosed amount of strangers around your nation are happy knowing that the requisite amount of babies are being murdered in the womb. As they should be, for only the souls of the unborn will keep back the legion of the Gorcrow Choir, who even now lurk in the quiet places between bodies. Should the stream of wombtorn spirits ever cease, or even significantly slow, their numbers will dwindle and then... then the Timeless Feast of Ending will begin. The Gorcrow Choir is only as far away as the width of a scream, the length of a death, and it would take oh so little for the bonds holding them back to snap like a dam forged from rotting bones.
If not for abortions, these strangers would be forced to dress up nice, in long jackets, practice their smiles, and walk through lower-class neighborhoods carrying only bibles and a carving knives.
"Let me tell you about an abortion patient I looked after recently. She was 18 years old, and 18-19 weeks pregnant. She came from a very strict, religious family. She was an only daughter, and had several brothers. She was East Indian Hindu and her boyfriend was East Indian Muslim, which did not please her parents. She told me if her parents found out she was pregnant she would be disowned and kicked out of the family home. She also told me that her brothers would murder her boyfriend, and I believed her. About an hour after her operation I and my nurse saw her and her boyfriend walking out of the clinic hand in hand, and I said to my nurse, 'Look at that. We saved two lives today.'"
Since i commented on the last one: this is exactly why I'm pro-choice.
I am one of those people who thinks that if you can't deal with birth control you shouldn't have sex. And if you can't deal with teh ramifications of sex, you're also not mature enough to deal with it.
I like to think that most abortions are last resorts and that many should be performed to save the mother's life or in cases like rape and the like.
However, the bottom line is that even if you were to legislate that, we'd get the situation he's describing, where women are taking matters into their own hands (or their lovers and family are) and women and children will die.
It's a hard enough choice without having to make it in an alley. I'll always be pro choice, period.
"It's a hard enough choice without having to make it in an alley." Can you submit that to national pro choice groups please? That is an awesome slogan.
I don't know that you're going to get the same intense reaction on this topic. It seems most of your friends agree, at least to some degree, on the necessity of options.
Extremism is the enemy, no matter what the field. There will always be exceptions, grey areas and landscapes to walk in and call home for the marginals.
Whew..okay, now I'm exhausted... intellectually stimulated, but exhausted. I'm going to have to throw in the towel now, and get some work done, but I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate everybody for not calling a stupid asshole too much as well ;)
Especially on this issue, I'm glad that folks here seem to be pro-choice, because whatever my personal feeling, I do believe people should have the freedom to choose.
Have you read Freakonomics (http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Revised-Expanded-Economist-Everything/dp/0061234001/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206077355&sr=1-1)?
He makes the interesting OBSERVATION that there is a definite statistical link between a drop in national (US) crime rates and the growing availability of legal abortion.
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Date: 2008-03-20 04:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-03-20 07:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-03-20 04:59 pm (UTC)I really don't know that I could perform abortions for a living. It'd be like euthanizing animals, it would just wear me down, probably in a short while.
So I give the guy props for doing a job that I would have the stomach for, but there's something about the article that didn't sit right with me. Like the quote about the medical student thanking him for the abortion and how she wouldn't be where she was if it wasn't for him. Something about that irks me.... got knocked up and a baby will complicate your life? Yay abortion! Obviously I'm reading a lot into that short blurb, but that just proves it's a touchy issue that folks are emotional about, including me.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:22 pm (UTC)Yeah, she should totally have let an accidental pregnancy disrupt her life so that there's one less doctor in the world rather than having an abortion and reproducing later, when she has the resources to care for the child properly without jeopardising her career! How selfish and irresponsible of her!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:55 pm (UTC)You have to understand, I view abortion as the taking of a human life. I don't think of it is as something that should be done without *very* good cause.
I don't know whether the woman in question had resources to care for the child or not. I can only wish it hadn't been necessary, and I hope that she took all precautions to avoid pregnancy.
In all honesty, I view the very act of having (heterosexual) sex as accepting the possible consequences. Don't stick your penis in a vagina, or let a penis in your vagina, unless you're prepared to take care of a child. But that's just my standard, and I don't expect everyone to follow it.
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Date: 2008-03-20 06:52 pm (UTC)> your life? Yay abortion!
Well, *yeah*. Especially given the alternatives.
(Even leaving aside the question of how she got pregnant, when she got pregnant, how much of it was her choice, and what precautions she took.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:58 pm (UTC)I don't like abortion as a means of birth control. It's the taking of a life, or at least the taking of a potential life. Sometimes it's the best alternative. A better one is not fucking around unless you're ready to take responsiblity for it.
Another abortion topic that has always made me twitch a bit is father's rights..as in, does he have any?
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Date: 2008-03-20 10:48 pm (UTC)If not for abortions, these strangers would be forced to dress up nice, in long jackets, practice their smiles, and walk through lower-class neighborhoods carrying only bibles and a carving knives.
Let us all be thankful with what we have.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-21 02:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:05 pm (UTC)"Let me tell you about an abortion patient I looked after recently. She was 18 years old, and 18-19 weeks pregnant. She came from a very strict, religious family. She was an only daughter, and had several brothers. She was East Indian Hindu and her boyfriend was East Indian Muslim, which did not please her parents. She told me if her parents found out she was pregnant she would be disowned and kicked out of the family home. She also told me that her brothers would murder her boyfriend, and I believed her. About an hour after her operation I and my nurse saw her and her boyfriend walking out of the clinic hand in hand, and I said to my nurse, 'Look at that. We saved two lives today.'"
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:24 pm (UTC)I am one of those people who thinks that if you can't deal with birth control you shouldn't have sex. And if you can't deal with teh ramifications of sex, you're also not mature enough to deal with it.
I like to think that most abortions are last resorts and that many should be performed to save the mother's life or in cases like rape and the like.
However, the bottom line is that even if you were to legislate that, we'd get the situation he's describing, where women are taking matters into their own hands (or their lovers and family are) and women and children will die.
It's a hard enough choice without having to make it in an alley. I'll always be pro choice, period.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:31 pm (UTC)Can you submit that to national pro choice groups please? That is an awesome slogan.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 06:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 05:40 pm (UTC)Extremism is the enemy, no matter what the field. There will always be exceptions, grey areas and landscapes to walk in and call home for the marginals.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 07:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 08:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-03-20 08:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-03-20 08:04 pm (UTC)Especially on this issue, I'm glad that folks here seem to be pro-choice, because whatever my personal feeling, I do believe people should have the freedom to choose.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-20 09:19 pm (UTC)I've not yet met someone who is personally opposed to abortion but believes it should be legal anyway.
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Date: 2008-03-21 05:33 am (UTC)He makes the interesting OBSERVATION that there is a definite statistical link between a drop in national (US) crime rates and the growing availability of legal abortion.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-22 04:51 pm (UTC)