"Ben Smith notes that appears to be exactly what happened. 'Joe' appears to be a registered Republican under the name of Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. Also, earlier today at a press conference, Wurzelbacher said he originally registered with the Natural Law Party."
from http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/95127/280/275/632293 and links to: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Joes_registration.html?showall
"I've always wanted to ask one of these guys a question and really corner them and get them to answer a question... for once instead of tap dancing around it. "And unfortunately I asked the question but I still got a tap dance... Almost as good as Sammy Davis Jr."
"Robin Hood stole from greedy rich people and redistributed it to the peasants, so to speak, so if he's calling us peasants, I kind of resent that," he said.
So, in two quotes, he hit the black button, the socialist button, and the elitist button.
Only thing I can think of is the 'Sammy Davis, Jr.' reference in the linked article. Which is like saying 'OH BY THE WAY, DON'T FORGET - HE'S BLACK!', but not what I'd call a slur.
Yeah, I think that's exactly what Joe the Republican Plant is insinuating. Of course, you'll get people like the person commenting to me below saying, "OMG how many white tap dancers are there anyway, of course he's going to say Sammy Davis Jr. It's not racist!"
Is it the fact that he mentioned a black person that makes him racist? Or was it that he chose Sammy Davis Jr. specifically? Would he be perceived as any less racist if he had chosen Savion Glover or Gregory Hines, or more racist if he chose Bill "Bojangles" Robinson or the Nicholas Brothers? If he had mentioned Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Steve Condos or Shirley Temple, would it still have been a metaphor for shucking and jiving?
Maybe he is racist. Don't read into my reaction that I'm defending him; rather, I'm trying to figure out where Hope enters into so much kneejerk cynicism (I like to think my own cynicism is a little less reactionary). By immediately assuming the worst based on a choice of words, you do yourself and your candidate a disservice.
LJ won't let me post the whole thing so I'll try bullet points:
Context: Cultural stereotype that Black people love to dance, therefore using dancing as metaphor for Black people problelmatic.
Shucking and jiving as Southern expression to describe evasiveness or lie telling, especially between Black people and White people...which is basically what Joe the Plumber is implying.
Obama specifically accused of shucking and jiving in January 2008.
See dog whistle politics above.
Tangent: I'm tired of white people saying that people of color don't know what they're talking about when it comes to race. Seriously. It would be awesome if, for once, white people acknowledge that when it comes racial politics in America, you are not the expert. /tangent
I am more than willing to say that I will never be able to fully understand (and therefore never fully appreciate) racial politics, not being on the receiving end of (a) a legacy of hundreds of years of overt and/or clandestine violence and oppression, (b) ongoing attacks on my culture, verbiage and choices in general, or (c) countless slights, intentional or otherwise -- all based on the color of my skin. I won't apologize, though, for asking questions about what I perceive as hasty generalizations.
Perhaps this whole thing rang a note for me because of an experience I had in the Army. I was the only white soldier in my squad for most of my tour in Germany; the other soldiers were all black. If you'll recall, Jim Henson and Sammy Davis Jr. died on the same day in 1990. Reading the Stars & Stripes newspaper, I lamented out loud about Henson's death. The immediate response from my driving partner and buddy was, "You better say something about Sammy Davis Jr.", after which he and the other guys in the squad stared at me in somewhat hostile/somewhat humorous anticipation.
I had grown up watching Sesame Street, the Muppet Show, all the muppet movies, the Dark Crystal, etc., so knew a great deal about and had affection for Henson's work. And at the time I had little awareness of Davis' immense, groundbreaking contributions to entertainment and civil rights (to be fair, all I knew about him was that he'd kissed Archie Bunker and sung "Candy Man"). That was my context. Did it make my comments racist? I don't think so, but that was how they were perceived.
Wow, I would hate to be Joe. All he did was ask a question to Obama and he became the center of a political debate and the object of scrutiny by Canada and the US alike.
I wonder if any of our opinions and convictions would stand up to these prying eyes.
All he did was get close enough to a man likely to become President of the United States and tell him he hated his tax plan, and then engage the man in debate.
How many people have gotten close enough to a Presidential candidate to voice a disagreement? I'm betting it's a lot more than Joe the faux-plumber and none of them made onto the news or into the presidential debate. Assuming he wasn't a plant, it is SHOCKING that one question and a disagreement would travel that far.
On a side note: Personally, I just think Joe was a dumb-ass that made up a situation to voice his own political disagreement. If we put everyone on TV that did this we'd be much more stupid for it.... What? daytime TV, sitcoms and talk shows are filled with that tripe? Huh.
Actually, here in the US, we pretty much do put everyone on TV who does this. Since then, Joe the Plumber has been on Fox News, CBS, and ABC (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html?hpid=topnews). Voluntarily. If he didn't want publicity, he shouldn't be seeking it out. But, in his own words, "[I] just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself and hope I can get my message out there." I have to give him respect for having the courage to speak out, at least.
The "Sammy Davis Jr." comment tells me everything I need to know about Joe the Plumber.
Obama's actual answer to him was pretty damned good, if you don't take it out of context. The problem with is is that it involved numbers with more than one digit, so Joe thought Obama was trying to fill his head with complicated stuff to confuse him.
Not to be a dick, but I'm going to be a dick. "Tap dancing" around a question is a standard, accepted figure of speech. Now, off the top of your head without googling, name me a tap dancer. Personally, the first three that come to mind are Sammy Davis Jr., Gregory Hines and Savion Glover.
So what exactly did his naming Sammy Davis Jr. tell you about him, and would you have felt any different if he had said Savion Glover?
Obama answered him directly, with facts and figures. There was no tap dancing involved, and I agree with jeremiad's comment above that it's insinuating "shucking and jiving".
Besides, the first tap dancer I thought of was Shirley Temple. The first THREE listed in this article are white folks: Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, and Shirley Temple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_dance
Wait...they mentioned Steve Condos first. He's a whitey, too.
Context is everything. His contemporaries are people my age, rather than my parents or grandparents (who are more likely to think of people like Astaire, Rogers, Gene Kelly, etc). And a wikipedia entry doth not a stream of consciousness make.
Yes, he likely was predisposed to hearing what he wanted to rather than an actual answer. I'm simply suggesting that you may be hearing what you've come to expect rather than just the words he said.
More interestingly, he doesn't actually have a plumbing license, and he has "no clear plan" about buying the business. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_el_pr/joe_the_plumber
Except that he is also in the 95%. Like typical blue-collar Republicans, Joe is dedicated to protecting the tax bracket that he dreams of instead of the one he is in.
Wurzelbacher said Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now, because he doesn't make $250,000. "But I hope someday I'll make that," he said.
"If you believed (Obama), I'd be receiving his tax cuts," Wurzelbacher said. "But I don't look at it that way. He'd still be hurting others."
Yeah, won't somebody please think of the rich people?
Holy shit, even more: http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/archive/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber-republican-plant-and-relative-of-charles-keating.aspx
Most interestingly, he already owns companies: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/02217/845
Yeah. But, he's not running for election. So he can be just some guy bein' a fraud -- whatever man. But for some reason McCain's god-awful stupid campaign figured that, without looking into who the hell this guy was, or anything about his past or anything, they decide to raise him up as a model of the Upwardly Mobile Blue-Collar American -- and then accuse /Obama/ of class warfare? Really?
Either that, or they knew who the guy was, but figured no one would be able to figure it out on the other side. I'm currently dealing with an idiot in my personal life who pulls stupid stunts, thinking that my husband and I aren't going to be able to put two and two together, then of course crying foul when we do just that.
The dKos bit is a non-starter. "Joe the Plumber" lives in Holland, OH. Fifteen minutes from my home in the North of Toledo, a full three hours from Cincinnati.
But, yes, he's still a fraud.
Seems he represents himself as "Joe", but is really named "Samuel". He makes roughly $40K/year (which is about average in his neighborhood), owes property taxes, is nowhere NEAR buying the business he works for, and he can't even legally call himself a plumber.
The Blade updated since this morning. (http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418)
Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 03:33 pm (UTC)"Ben Smith notes that appears to be exactly what happened. 'Joe' appears to be a registered Republican under the name of Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. Also, earlier today at a press conference, Wurzelbacher said he originally registered with the Natural Law Party."
from http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/95127/280/275/632293
and links to: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Joes_registration.html?showall
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 03:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 03:45 pm (UTC)Do you have his home address handy? For that matter, do you know for sure that "Joe" (or Joseph) is his legal name?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 03:51 pm (UTC)Here, have all.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 11:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 01:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 01:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:10 pm (UTC)I mean, yeah, he's likely a republican shill, and any republican shill is going to be doing racist dog whistling, but I'd like to see the data m'self.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 06:57 pm (UTC)"Robin Hood stole from greedy rich people and redistributed it to the peasants, so to speak, so if he's calling us peasants, I kind of resent that," he said.
So, in two quotes, he hit the black button, the socialist button, and the elitist button.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 07:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 06:10 am (UTC)*eyeroll*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 08:30 am (UTC)Is it the fact that he mentioned a black person that makes him racist? Or was it that he chose Sammy Davis Jr. specifically? Would he be perceived as any less racist if he had chosen Savion Glover or Gregory Hines, or more racist if he chose Bill "Bojangles" Robinson or the Nicholas Brothers? If he had mentioned Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Steve Condos or Shirley Temple, would it still have been a metaphor for shucking and jiving?
Maybe he is racist. Don't read into my reaction that I'm defending him; rather, I'm trying to figure out where Hope enters into so much kneejerk cynicism (I like to think my own cynicism is a little less reactionary). By immediately assuming the worst based on a choice of words, you do yourself and your candidate a disservice.
abbreviated version
Date: 2008-10-17 02:32 pm (UTC)Context:
Cultural stereotype that Black people love to dance, therefore using dancing as metaphor for Black people problelmatic.
Shucking and jiving as Southern expression to describe evasiveness or lie telling, especially between Black people and White people...which is basically what Joe the Plumber is implying.
Obama specifically accused of shucking and jiving in January 2008.
See dog whistle politics above.
Tangent:
I'm tired of white people saying that people of color don't know what they're talking about when it comes to race. Seriously. It would be awesome if, for once, white people acknowledge that when it comes racial politics in America, you are not the expert.
/tangent
Re: abbreviated version
Date: 2008-10-17 03:36 pm (UTC)Perhaps this whole thing rang a note for me because of an experience I had in the Army. I was the only white soldier in my squad for most of my tour in Germany; the other soldiers were all black. If you'll recall, Jim Henson and Sammy Davis Jr. died on the same day in 1990. Reading the Stars & Stripes newspaper, I lamented out loud about Henson's death. The immediate response from my driving partner and buddy was, "You better say something about Sammy Davis Jr.", after which he and the other guys in the squad stared at me in somewhat hostile/somewhat humorous anticipation.
I had grown up watching Sesame Street, the Muppet Show, all the muppet movies, the Dark Crystal, etc., so knew a great deal about and had affection for Henson's work. And at the time I had little awareness of Davis' immense, groundbreaking contributions to entertainment and civil rights (to be fair, all I knew about him was that he'd kissed Archie Bunker and sung "Candy Man"). That was my context. Did it make my comments racist? I don't think so, but that was how they were perceived.
I'll shut up now.
Re: abbreviated version
Date: 2008-10-17 07:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:12 pm (UTC)I wonder if any of our opinions and convictions would stand up to these prying eyes.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 05:19 pm (UTC)heh. Sorry. I just enjoy ragging on Canada.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 07:34 pm (UTC)It's SHOCKING that this might become news!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 07:59 pm (UTC)How many people have gotten close enough to a Presidential candidate to voice a disagreement? I'm betting it's a lot more than Joe the faux-plumber and none of them made onto the news or into the presidential debate. Assuming he wasn't a plant, it is SHOCKING that one question and a disagreement would travel that far.
On a side note: Personally, I just think Joe was a dumb-ass that made up a situation to voice his own political disagreement. If we put everyone on TV that did this we'd be much more stupid for it.... What? daytime TV, sitcoms and talk shows are filled with that tripe? Huh.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 08:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 09:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:14 pm (UTC)Obama's actual answer to him was pretty damned good, if you don't take it out of context. The problem with is is that it involved numbers with more than one digit, so Joe thought Obama was trying to fill his head with complicated stuff to confuse him.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 05:10 am (UTC)So what exactly did his naming Sammy Davis Jr. tell you about him, and would you have felt any different if he had said Savion Glover?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 06:09 am (UTC)Besides, the first tap dancer I thought of was Shirley Temple. The first THREE listed in this article are white folks: Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, and Shirley Temple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_dance
Wait...they mentioned Steve Condos first. He's a whitey, too.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 08:05 am (UTC)Yes, he likely was predisposed to hearing what he wanted to rather than an actual answer. I'm simply suggesting that you may be hearing what you've come to expect rather than just the words he said.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 02:32 pm (UTC)See my response concerning that abov e.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:26 pm (UTC)http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_el_pr/joe_the_plumber
He was just talking out his ass.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 05:05 pm (UTC)Obama: My tax plan will lower taxes for 95% of Americans.
Republicans: What about this guy?
Obama: Clearly he's in that 5%. Can't you do math?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 05:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 06:09 pm (UTC)Wurzelbacher said Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now, because he doesn't make $250,000. "But I hope someday I'll make that," he said.
"If you believed (Obama), I'd be receiving his tax cuts," Wurzelbacher said. "But I don't look at it that way. He'd still be hurting others."
Yeah, won't somebody please think of the rich people?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 06:27 pm (UTC)As if those same people didn't get an unfair and unfounded tax break for the last 8 years.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 04:29 pm (UTC)Sort of.
His last name was misspelled, which means that since Ohio is "verifying" its voter rolls, he may or may not get to vote.
*shrug*
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 05:10 pm (UTC)http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/archive/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber-republican-plant-and-relative-of-charles-keating.aspx
Most interestingly, he already owns companies:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/02217/845
This guy is a fucking fraud.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 05:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 05:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-16 08:50 pm (UTC)But, yes, he's still a fraud.
Seems he represents himself as "Joe", but is really named "Samuel". He makes roughly $40K/year (which is about average in his neighborhood), owes property taxes, is nowhere NEAR buying the business he works for, and he can't even legally call himself a plumber.
The Blade updated since this morning. (http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 02:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-17 02:02 am (UTC)To quote:
McCain was treading on thin ice with that one.