(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-10 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anivair.livejournal.com
yup.

Much like the black president deal (though i think that obame will change a lot of things by virtue of being a decent guy, rather than being black).

A lot of people asked if I was excited to see what white people would do when they had a black president.

Nope. White people will have a black president and things will be normal and that will be funny.

But what will be funnier is when black people realize nothing has changed. that's what I'm waiting for.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-10 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com
"yup."

Thirded.

"though i think that obame will change a lot of things by virtue of being a decent guy, rather than being black"

Mostly agreed (see below).

"But what will be funnier is when black people realize nothing has changed."

First, something important has changed for many African Americans (and based on what I'm hearing from overseas, black people elsewhere as well, though I don't yet understand that quite as well) -- but it's largely internal (and I think, based on comments made on camera, that most of them realize that). Okay, it's 'just a perception' that's changed, but that can be important (and in this case I think it is).

Second, I agree that in terms of greater effects on society, having our first black president doesn't really change all that much, or at least not as much as a lot of people want it to mean anyhow. But the second black president will herald a vatly important, if rather subtle, change.

You see, one can be 'the exception': "Okay, we let one in." "We just have to keep this one from ruining the country for four years until we can get him out of there." And later, "Well sure, he turned out okay, but he was just an exception; we better not let it happen again." On the other hand, when the next black president is elected, and Obama goes from being "the only" to "the first", then despite stubbornness on the part of a few die-hards, having a black president becomes less exceptional -- maybe not 'ordinary' for a couple more generations, but certainly less strange -- and the Really Big shift in cultural attitudes happens (bringing the gestalt more in line with what a fair number of Americans already feel individually).

Just like the first female firefighter could be "Hey, look at the lady fireman," but the second was, "Well, yeah, women can be firemen I guess," and the tenth made it, "Although most firefighters are men, some are women." Nobody remembers the name of The Second ___ To Become a ____, but that's when the real change happens that the first made possible by punching a hole in a barrier.

The icebreaker does an impressive job punching open a path, and then the cargo ships follow that path and deliver the goods. (Not that I don't think Obama will 'deliver the goods' as far as being president is concerned; but that 'the goods' in the sense of a huge cultural shift in what we think of as 'ordinary' and what potential we see in people who don't look like the majority will be delivered on the shoulders of the second black president of the US.

Obama is still pretty f'ing important in that process of course -- if not for his victory now, the next one would have to be The First.

And entirely apart from the matter of 'race', I expect him to be a good president (a great one, if enough other politicians line up beside him instead of throwing themselves in his way), but that's on a different axis than what I've described above. (I also expect him to dissapoint me from time to time, and to piss me off occasionally, but any president who isn't me will do that. I just hope that he remains aware of and responsive to the concerns voiced my millions like me over the course of his term(s).)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-11 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anivair.livejournal.com
Oh, i don't disagree with you that having a black president changes the political landscape. that much is very accurate and it opens up a lot of possibilities for future presidents. True.

However, i think that a lot of black people thought it would change their daily lives and I have my doubts that it will. that's more what i was getting at. that once the excitement of having a black man in the white house dies down, life will be unchanged around most people.

but we'll see. Maybe not. maybe the excitement really will carry over into social change. that would be great.

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