Now THIS is the sort of study I've been seeking. I had been rightly worried when acupuncture started to almost get official acceptance. I've never had any, but it probably works because.. you know.. you have to RELAX.
I know. But having science like this can be used by those lobbying for change. Even more so, science is irrelevant to public opinion. People will continue going to them whether it's valid or not.
I'll be interested to see where it goes. I hope they follow it up. I mean, I'm a believer in the placebo effect, obviously, but if the numbers are that clear, then it makes me wonder if there's not also something else going on.
People have often said that part of the reason acupuncture works is adrenal release. You stress over having needles put in you, so when it's over you relax. I'd buy that just as readily as changing internal energy flow or whatever else acupuncturists promote.
Or endorphins from the pain - which are already WELL-KNOWN to cure headaches.
I'm just saying.
(But yeah. They're not saying that acupuncture is just a placebo. They're saying that acupuncture's *reasoning* - that the needles need to be in special places to help the flow of magic nonsense - is transparent bullshit.)
The nerves that send pain signals to your cerebral cortex can only send one signal at a time. By stimulating them with a lesser pain (or any other sensory stimulus), you can ignore a more serious pain. Sort of like when you rub a hurting body part, or blow the pain away for a kid.
Right It's easy to make the leap to acupuncture = just like doing nothing, but I'm not sure it proves anything of the sort. But I can see the urge to go that route with it.
It could even just be the pain influence. Sure you might not FEEL it, but your body is aware that there are pins being stuck into your body (I'm speculating). So it could be that the endorphins released to ease pain is why you feel improvement.
But yes, if they can do studies with control and show that it works with a statistically significant higher rate of success than would be expected by placebo, I would be most interested to learn more about why it works.
Yeah yeah yeah placebo affect... which is a great way to dismiss the result: "both genuine and sham acupuncture reduced the intensity of headache compared with no treatment at all."
I'm much, much more interested in the possibility that it's a "non-specific physiological effect." Of course I don't think that there are magical acupuncture locations in the body that correspond to other parts of the body via the movement of life force energy -- but I *do* think there's a distinct possibility that the neurological stimulus of tiny sharp needles being poked into your body could have some affect on the frequency and intensity of headaches. I'd be *really* interested in that study. And in a study that attempted to separate the placebo effect from the result-- perhaps by using magnet therapy with non-magnetic stones as a "control"?
The original paper doesn't call it "placebo". They just point out that no matter where you stick the needles, you get the same results.
Meaning, the magical locations of interflowing energy? Is just more woowoo bullshit, as expected. But sticking needles in yourself does do SOMETHING, even if it's not because of the magic.
(My personal bet is "endorphins", which are already well-known to be painkillers. There's a reason the classic prescription for a bad headache is an orgasm)
(Also: testing versus placebo is simple enough - just administer a placebo, and don't tell them it's an ACUPUNCTURE study)
That "print things backwards" character in your userinfo is seriously the most annoying thing EVER, because it fucks up gmail's handling of not only your email, but every subsequent comment notification email on that post.
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(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 05:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:41 pm (UTC)People have often said that part of the reason acupuncture works is adrenal release. You stress over having needles put in you, so when it's over you relax. I'd buy that just as readily as changing internal energy flow or whatever else acupuncturists promote.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:47 pm (UTC)I'm just saying.
(But yeah. They're not saying that acupuncture is just a placebo. They're saying that acupuncture's *reasoning* - that the needles need to be in special places to help the flow of magic nonsense - is transparent bullshit.)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 08:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 08:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 08:24 pm (UTC)The nerves that send pain signals to your cerebral cortex can only send one signal at a time. By stimulating them with a lesser pain (or any other sensory stimulus), you can ignore a more serious pain. Sort of like when you rub a hurting body part, or blow the pain away for a kid.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-10 09:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:56 pm (UTC)But yes, if they can do studies with control and show that it works with a statistically significant higher rate of success than would be expected by placebo, I would be most interested to learn more about why it works.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:40 pm (UTC)I'm much, much more interested in the possibility that it's a "non-specific physiological effect." Of course I don't think that there are magical acupuncture locations in the body that correspond to other parts of the body via the movement of life force energy -- but I *do* think there's a distinct possibility that the neurological stimulus of tiny sharp needles being poked into your body could have some affect on the frequency and intensity of headaches. I'd be *really* interested in that study. And in a study that attempted to separate the placebo effect from the result-- perhaps by using magnet therapy with non-magnetic stones as a "control"?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 06:45 pm (UTC)Meaning, the magical locations of interflowing energy? Is just more woowoo bullshit, as expected. But sticking needles in yourself does do SOMETHING, even if it's not because of the magic.
(My personal bet is "endorphins", which are already well-known to be painkillers. There's a reason the classic prescription for a bad headache is an orgasm)
(Also: testing versus placebo is simple enough - just administer a placebo, and don't tell them it's an ACUPUNCTURE study)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 07:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 07:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 08:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-09 08:48 pm (UTC)