If you want, go back to NFL season last year, see if he's purged the ones he got then. Any post about football produced a good dozen "So, glad you like football, WHERE IS MY FUCKING BOOK" comments.
I didn't hate Serenity. The problem is that I can see Whedon's fingerprints all over pretty much all his work (like you can see Aaron Sorkin, George Lucas, or Sam Raimi, for that matter) and Whedon's issues are... issuey. Really, really, really, issuey. And his problems have made most of his work painful to watch.
(Calling Dollhouse "24 for gender relations!" is one of the great all-time pithy comments)
"Song of Fire and Ice" is overblown melodramatic twaddle and i take no small amount of delight in watching fanboys and fangirls cry like little babies over every delay.
I liked The Song of Ice and Fire, but I think he's lost control of the story. Still, I will probably buy the next book (in paper back, or when the hardcover gets cheap on Amazon)-- and at this point, I'm hoping that there will be a mob of annoying fans and something awful will happen to them.
TBH I actually thought he was dead or something. Well no, not true, we just thought he'd given up. GRRM caused us to set a strict book buying rule - don't start new series until the author retires. Its easier than way, less drama all round :p
You are SO late to that party. Half of John's f-list (myself included) got that particular literary tick from Jordan years before GRRM released the first ASoIaF book.
That would be more principled than what he seems to have been doing. In general, I'm not sure that I think that fans have the right to demand output from artists. But if you were at a convention two years ago and bought books 1 through N from GRRM partially on the strength of his enthusiasm about his progress on book N+1, you might have the right to feel defrauded. On the other hand, if he's frank that he doesn't know where the story is going and doesn't know if he's ever going to figure it out, then customers have enough information to be able to decide if the series up to this point is worth their effort.
In any field, missing self-imposed deadlines one after the other is unprofessional. Missing three without apology would pretty much guarantee "retirement" in any field where you had a boss no matter how much of a special snowflake you are. It's harder in art because the artist can do whatever he wants but the community is responsible for assessing his relevance and an artist should feel some sort of covenant with his fans. And ranting at all of your fans because some of them are asshats and then lapping up the egoboo of people telling you that your shit smells like lilacs is a whole new level of unprofessional.
a) The length of time that it's taking GRRM to finish his last few books is annoying for fans like myself. Or, at least, it used to be. The longer it takes for ADwD to come out, the less I care about the series. Jordan and Martin have completely turned me off of picking up new epic fantasy because it's way too frustrating.
b) I would rather an author take his time finishing the books and do them well, rather than take the Jordan route and churn out 4 crap books after 7 good books.
c) I am not annoyed with Jordan for dying before finishing WoT, I am annoyed that the series could have been wrapped up almost a decade ago if he hadn't so completely and utterly lost the plot when he wrote "A Crown of Swords", and all of the abysmal books that followed.
Since most of your possible responses to the questions didn't quite cover my own answers:
1. Enh, understandable. Yes, authors do have (and should be "allowed" to have) personal lives. And yes, different writers write at different speeds. But at the same time, for fuck's sake, how long do you really need, even *with* the other commitments in your life? And also, actually setting a deadline and then blowing it off is inconsiderate and annoying. So annoyance at this is, in general, totally understandable. IMNSHO, of course.
2. Understandable, if he's taking it as an attack at his actually having other commitments to take care of, a life to live, and other things to work on... but stupid because he's completely ignoring the other aspects of the problem, as raised in my reply to question 1.
3. Robert Jordan dying was sad, but also annoying as far as a books-related thing goes. Not so much that "he died, how annoying," but more like larabeaton was saying... things shouldn't have gotten to that point, anyhow. The series should have been wrapped up ages before the health thing became an issue, rather than spiraling further and further out of control.
4. I don't really have one pat answer to this, since some of those authors I share (I suspect) your opinion, and others (Rowling, to a point Whedon) I actually like, and don't think their fame really undeserved, if a little overinflated in places. (And I don't even know who LaHaye is.)
1. There's a reason I twigged "understandable" myself. I may not AGREE, but I can see how the reasoning works.
2. See, once you've blown your deadline, told everyone that your deadline is blown, told them there is NO CHANCE of that deadline, and that you HOPE (with no promises) to meet a new goal - and then, months before that goal, tell them it isn't going to happen - I can generally excuse further delays. If he were under contract to me to deliver that product, I'd have a right to be pissed. If I'd paid for it, I'd have a right to be pissed. As just someone who wants to see the result? The treatment he's gotten is crazy, with a side of crazysauce, served over a bed of steamed crazy. And I can't see getting upset at that as bad.
For me, at least, I think authors are okay to figure out that they've got personal lives or other aspects to being an author than just writing a book. Doing conventions, working on other projects, teaching workshops -- it's all part of being an author. The more visible you are, the better the book sells (theoretically). Personally, I'm suspicious of authors that crank out a book a year or more *cough Lackey cough* and these are heavy, layered books. It takes time and effort to craft them and just like us, sometimes an author needs a break to do something else for a while.
Heck, Robert Asprin had years between his two series, the Phule Books and the MYTH books. He had financial problems, and then some other problems. It's not as if shit that happens to regular people don't happen to authors, too.
I have friends that do the whole anger/frustration thing at Martin for the delay. I tell them to shut their fucking face, Stephen King had a seven year delay between some of the Dark Tower books, and bitching at the delay didn't make *those* books come any quicker either. I feel the delay is perfectly justifiable, and his anger perfectly understandable. There are *lots* of books out there to read while fans wait for the next one.
I'm leaning towards understandable for both, mainly because if GRRM were another, less famous author, his contract would have been killed by now. Sure, I want an awesome book from him, and I'm willing to wait for it, but I also know that blowing your deadlines repeatedly is a pretty obnoxious thing to do, from the publishers all the way on down to the fans. Similarly, sure - I don't spend every scrap of my life in pursuit of the creative stuff I do for money and otherwise, and nor should he be expected to, but I meet my contracted deadlines every time, and so should he. Having trouble with time management and planning =/= needing a balanced life, and I suspect at least some of the former is at play here.
That said - he gets it done when/if he gets it done, I'm not even working with one of his licensors any more, so it's not impinging on my quality of life any.
Regarding the first question about Martin, I would have liked to add "bewildering." Granted, I only slogged through the first book, but his prose was so vanilla, I couldn't stand to read any more. I've heard that the sequels are better in this regard, but honestly, I didn't care about any of the characters enough to wonder what wound up happening to them. If he's a benchmark of fantasy fiction, it's in worse shape than I thought.
Other points: 1.) People need to learn a little patience in our instant gratification world. Books are meant to be enjoyed, not breezed through, so why would you want an author to rush a story and make it less than it should be?
2.) Everyone figured Book 13 wouldn't be completed, but honestly, after about book 8 my attention started to wane.
George RR Martin's response made a lot of logical sense to me. His point was reasoned and passionate at the same time, and would totally convince me if I still didn't want the man locked in a room UNTIL HE FINISHED THE GODDAMN SERIES.
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theweaselking
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-23 11:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-23 11:44 pm (UTC)"I have no mouth and I must tickybox" gave me fits of giggles.
Also "Rick Nelson"
From:(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 12:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-23 11:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-23 11:57 pm (UTC)If you want, go back to NFL season last year, see if he's purged the ones he got then. Any post about football produced a good dozen "So, glad you like football, WHERE IS MY FUCKING BOOK" comments.
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Date: 2009-02-23 11:54 pm (UTC)I love Joss. Sad Face.
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:00 am (UTC)I didn't hate Serenity. The problem is that I can see Whedon's fingerprints all over pretty much all his work (like you can see Aaron Sorkin, George Lucas, or Sam Raimi, for that matter) and Whedon's issues are... issuey. Really, really, really, issuey. And his problems have made most of his work painful to watch.
(Calling Dollhouse "24 for gender relations!" is one of the great all-time pithy comments)
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 12:19 am (UTC)Except I like the series.
But, y'know. There's other books.
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 12:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 03:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:06 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 04:28 am (UTC)In any field, missing self-imposed deadlines one after the other is unprofessional. Missing three without apology would pretty much guarantee "retirement" in any field where you had a boss no matter how much of a special snowflake you are. It's harder in art because the artist can do whatever he wants but the community is responsible for assessing his relevance and an artist should feel some sort of covenant with his fans. And ranting at all of your fans because some of them are asshats and then lapping up the egoboo of people telling you that your shit smells like lilacs is a whole new level of unprofessional.
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:07 am (UTC)b) I would rather an author take his time finishing the books and do them well, rather than take the Jordan route and churn out 4 crap books after 7 good books.
c) I am not annoyed with Jordan for dying before finishing WoT, I am annoyed that the series could have been wrapped up almost a decade ago if he hadn't so completely and utterly lost the plot when he wrote "A Crown of Swords", and all of the abysmal books that followed.
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:16 am (UTC)1. Enh, understandable. Yes, authors do have (and should be "allowed" to have) personal lives. And yes, different writers write at different speeds. But at the same time, for fuck's sake, how long do you really need, even *with* the other commitments in your life? And also, actually setting a deadline and then blowing it off is inconsiderate and annoying. So annoyance at this is, in general, totally understandable. IMNSHO, of course.
2. Understandable, if he's taking it as an attack at his actually having other commitments to take care of, a life to live, and other things to work on... but stupid because he's completely ignoring the other aspects of the problem, as raised in my reply to question 1.
3. Robert Jordan dying was sad, but also annoying as far as a books-related thing goes. Not so much that "he died, how annoying," but more like
4. I don't really have one pat answer to this, since some of those authors I share (I suspect) your opinion, and others (Rowling, to a point Whedon) I actually like, and don't think their fame really undeserved, if a little overinflated in places. (And I don't even know who LaHaye is.)
5. The correct answer is "Spoooooon!"
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Date: 2009-02-24 12:24 am (UTC)2. See, once you've blown your deadline, told everyone that your deadline is blown, told them there is NO CHANCE of that deadline, and that you HOPE (with no promises) to meet a new goal - and then, months before that goal, tell them it isn't going to happen - I can generally excuse further delays. If he were under contract to me to deliver that product, I'd have a right to be pissed. If I'd paid for it, I'd have a right to be pissed. As just someone who wants to see the result? The treatment he's gotten is crazy, with a side of crazysauce, served over a bed of steamed crazy. And I can't see getting upset at that as bad.
4. LaHaye is responsible for Left Behind.
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From:Slamdunk! Ooohh yeah!
From:WoT
From:Re: WoT
From:Re: WoT
From:(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 01:04 am (UTC)Heck, Robert Asprin had years between his two series, the Phule Books and the MYTH books. He had financial problems, and then some other problems. It's not as if shit that happens to regular people don't happen to authors, too.
I have friends that do the whole anger/frustration thing at Martin for the delay. I tell them to shut their fucking face, Stephen King had a seven year delay between some of the Dark Tower books, and bitching at the delay didn't make *those* books come any quicker either. I feel the delay is perfectly justifiable, and his anger perfectly understandable. There are *lots* of books out there to read while fans wait for the next one.
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Date: 2009-02-24 01:38 am (UTC)That said - he gets it done when/if he gets it done, I'm not even working with one of his licensors any more, so it's not impinging on my quality of life any.
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Date: 2009-02-24 02:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 02:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 12:47 pm (UTC)This is one of the reasons why I hate starting a series without knowing it is done.
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Date: 2009-02-24 01:22 pm (UTC)* I don't know who Tim LaHey is.
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Date: 2009-02-24 01:24 pm (UTC)1.) People need to learn a little patience in our instant gratification world. Books are meant to be enjoyed, not breezed through, so why would you want an author to rush a story and make it less than it should be?
2.) Everyone figured Book 13 wouldn't be completed, but honestly, after about book 8 my attention started to wane.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 02:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-24 03:00 pm (UTC)off topic
Date: 2009-02-24 08:20 pm (UTC)Re: off topic
Date: 2009-02-24 08:27 pm (UTC)Where?
Re: off topic
From:Re: off topic
From:(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-25 08:30 am (UTC)Augh, LaHaye. Flee.