(no subject)

[theweaselking]

The physics! The physics are EATING MY BRAIN. Did not a single person involved in the writing of that movie know what a supernova, a black hole, an interplanetary distance, or a vacuum was?

(No, wait, they had no sound in space, twice. So they knew what a vacuum was SOME of the time. That makes it worse!)

It was a fun enough movie as long as you could turn off the educated part of your brain, completely. Seriously, so much of that film was just like Michael Bay's Batman script for sheer nonsense value. And once you accept that none of the things they're discussing are anything like the things they're discussing, there are a couple of clunky incidents of Explaining The Carburator for the slower children in the audience.

But, hey, fun story, very good special effects, the stupidity is limited to a complete inability to understand basic astrophysics and a little suspension of disbelief about the chain of command, and once you get past that it's not like there's an Idiot Plot running things. So, it's basically the best Star Trek movie currently possible.

Comments

[holyoutlaw.livejournal.com]

I think this is the best review of the Star Trek movie currently possible

[anivair.livejournal.com]

yeah, the black hole thing bothered me (especially since it would have taken about a half a second to say something like "it created a singularity so powerful that it made a wormhole through space-time ... that would have been close enough to calm me down).

And it seemed to me that they only has sound in space when they had matter in space, but I'd have to see it again to be sure. But I agree, it was the best so far. I especially loved the nightmare when they dropped out of warp at vulcan. Good stuff, that.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

The two biggest problems for me were:
1) "OK, we're going to sit here and wait for that dickwad Spock. I don't care if it takes 25 years! Who's with me?" "We all are, Captain!"
2) "Let's hang around and gloat! Not like the black hole is gonna catch up with us... oops."

[sanityimpaired.livejournal.com]

Harlan Ellison once said that science fiction was something that explored the boundaries of what science could do, while sci-fi was something that tried to provide entertainment with no pretense of science whatsoever. Star Trek was sci-fi from day one, so trying to hold it to science fiction standards at this point is just silly.

Coincidentally, Harlan Ellison is suing Paramount over the 25% of all proceeds from City on the Edge of Forever related merchandise he was contractually owed but never received.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Also, 'vacuum' has only one c.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

You know, I can totally see them plotting their revenge and planning it for 25 years. They're Romulans - they live stupidly long times, they loves them some revenge, and they *all* saw their homeworld destroyed.

Oh, and the captain is a dangerous psycho.

(Why did they put the comm/transporter jammer ON THE DRILL? That's stupid! And you can't drill into a planet's core, it will kind of collapse under it's own weight before you get out of the crust, let alone through the mantle! The hole just ain't gonna be there when your space laser stops firing! And you're using a BLACK HOLE GENERATOR! Toss it on the surface of the planet, who gives a crap?

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Also: I don't get why *nobody fucking maneuvers*. And why the hell would you stick around and shoot at the ship that is *half in and half out of a *somehow planar* singularity? Beam the survivors off if they want to be beamed off, but nothing physical is getting away from that.

(Oh, and: "Why yes, I'll take an academy near-graduate on a midshipman's cruise without orders because he should have graduated and I think the boy's got the makings of a fine officer" and "Congratulations, middie, you haven't been on a real ship for more than two hours, you're second in command" are TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.)

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

There's standard Star Trek nonsense (Warp drives, subspace communications, transporters, dilithium, reversing the polarity of the neutron flow, vulcan nerve pinches, etc) and then there's REAL WORLD nonsense (Supernovas don't work that way, a black hole won't "fix" a supernova because most supernovas *have black holes in the middle and that's why they went supernova*, black holes don't work that way, planet crusts and cores don't work that way, you'd be hard-pressed to get that good a look at a collapsing planet from it's own moon let alone from a different planet that is several minutes (at least) at maximum warp away).

Star Trek is normally barely tolerable because they keep their nonsense to the realm of pure fantasy.

This movie was *painful* every time it tried to explain everything - like "Hackers" and computers[1] or "Batman Begins" and what happens when you boil water.

[1]: I love that movie. Any time anyone asks me what's really possible for a skilled computer hacker, I tell them to rent and watch that movie. The short version is, if it happens in that movie, it's impossible.

[spartonian.livejournal.com]

At least they made sure the away team member in red died.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Not just died, not just died first, but died first *stupidly* for *being stupid*.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

It's not that the jammer's on the drill, it's that the drill, when in operation, generates radiation that jams those signals. Which, hey, mining ship can't call for help when it's working? Big fat pirate target. And how did a mining ship get such fancy weaponry?

[kierthos.livejournal.com]

Harlan Ellison, another victim of Hollywood math.

[thette.livejournal.com]

Hey, reversing the polarity of the neutron flow is Doctor Who nonsense, not Star Trek nonsense.

[kierthos.livejournal.com]

Star Trek has had plenty of technobabble of it's own, though.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Good explanation. But, sadly, your first explanation *gives* the remaining one:

They've got the weaponry, which is really not all that fancy for 150 years in the future, for standard defense against pirates while they disengage the laser and open a subspace channel. Really, when the order is given to "fire everything!" there's still only a dozen shots going out. The reason their ship is such an awesome unstoppable dreadnought in KirkTime comes from three factors:

1) Shields to defend against +150yr weapons.
2) Weapons to penetrate +150yr shields.
3) They attack from surprise, because standard Trek doctrine[1] is that you don't go through warp with your shields up because that squares your required energy expenditure. And when Vulcan's complaint is "unexplained seismic activity", that doesn't justify flying in with shields up - so everyone but Enterprise showed up fat and sassy and got hit before they know what was going on.

Also possible: The drill generates signals that jam *old* radios and *old* transporters, and the different special effects in later shows indicate the new methods that are so ubiquitous that nobody even considered the drill to be a problem against - nobody USES tech from a century ago, so who cares if your drill breaks it? And the villains just thought this was icing on the cake. And they had guns because they're ROMULANS and fucking Romulans fucking arm fucking everything.

(What bugged me, though, was the fact that they completely ignored the whole "you can't Transport through Shields" thing. I mean, come on, this was a critical plot point of multiple episodes and multiple movies when I was 10 and last thought Star Trek was interesting. Can't you at least lampshade it?)

[1]: It said so in one of the old video games.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

And I win my bet with torrain about who will be first to point that out!

[thette.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Sometimes, you're absolutely lovely.

[thette.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. But reversing the polarity is all Jon Pertwee.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I know.

(I bet "a Scandahoovian". She had "a Brit". I win!)

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Yes, but "reversing the polarity of the neutron flow" is entirely the Third Doctor. The actor *hated* technobabble and refused to memorise lines that contained it. The writers were all "hello, sci-fi, what?" - as a compromise, they had him memorise ONE technobabble phrase and he used it every time they needed technobabble.

[drjamez.livejournal.com]

I recall an interview with Jon Pertwee where he claimed he was able to remember that particular line if he sung it to a little Gilbert and Sullivan in his head. Likewise, the "reverse the polarity" line or variation of it has been used in Star Trek (albeit select Next Gen/Voyager episodes; I forget if it was ever used in Enterprise or DS9), if only as a brief shout-out to uber-geeks.

On the new movie: the science is busted. Agreed. Still, your analysis sums it up nicely - it's a fun flick despite the logical flaws. (Irony, that.)

However, I think that the sequel had better kick much more ass, now that the crew is together and on the path to greatness.

- James -

[marlo.livejournal.com]

I think I was just so sure it was going to suck that I was pleasantly surprised and delighted when it didn't. I think I've been fan-raped too much (Star Wars was my first fandom).

[publius1.livejournal.com]

I have spent many years looking at Star Trek's "Science" as more like fantasy magic. Because, yes, everything you say is true, but it doesn't matter somehow anyway.

[lurkerwithout.livejournal.com]

There's a Star Trek movie or tv series that manages correct high end science?

[chrisrw109.livejournal.com]

Heh.

(Oh, and: "Why yes, I'll take an academy near-graduate on a midshipman's cruise without orders because he should have graduated and I think the boy's got the makings of a fine officer" and "Congratulations, middie, you haven't been on a real ship for more than two hours, you're second in command" are TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.)

I really really enjoyed the movie but that? Was the part I had the ABSOLUTE most trouble with. Cause the science (or rather the lack of science in many spots...) is pretty much like 'Okay it's Star Trek.. there will always be hand waving').

But figure there's a crew of like 450 - 500 people on the ship... these people are not mid-shipmen who are under suspension... this means there are 449 - 499 people who officially outrank Jim Kirk in the movie.

Yeah, yeah, gifted amateur blah blah blah..... but let's remember that experience trumps intellect, trumps instinct (and wasn't that pretty much what the whole end of Star Trek 2 was about)?

Advise someone with more experience? Sure.... Use him as part of the beam over team to help the plan take affect? Okaybe. Make him Captain.... well pretty much at any point of the movie including the happy ending? That's sorta crazy.

That's like taking the kid who just got kicked out of Driver's Ed and making him the pilot of Air Force One.

I liked alot of the movie, I'm intrigued as hell by where they go from here... but there were some glaring holes.

Which as you said makes it the best ST movie currently possible...
(and light years better than Nemesis, Insurrection, and Generations).

(Though anyone saying it's the best ever is apparently suffering from dementia).