(no subject)

[theweaselking]

McDonald's hires Steppin Fetchit and Jim Crow to sell their burgers to the Japanese.

Quoth my local Dude What Has Spent Half His Adult Life In Japan: "Note that the dude talking in Katakan is the equivalent to us having a Japanese dude say how Ronery he is, and ask whether we'd like 'flied lice'"

Comments

[jagash.livejournal.com]

Heh, so this is the unusual occurrence of white guys legitimately being the target of racism. Neat. Feel sorry for the foreigners in Japan, but I have a hard time getting riled up about it myself after looking at the history books.

[harald387.livejournal.com]

The large number of people saying 'look at the history books' (fie on me for reading the comments on the article, anyway) is really kind of baffling me; is turnabout fair play? Since when is any race-bashing okay? Will it remain okay to bash white people forever? Do we have an expiry point after which everything's even, or do we just trade back and forth, so in fifty years it'll be okay to make fun of black people for being black again?

[torrain.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, could you expand on the adjective "legitimate" in the context of racial prejudice?

[jagash.livejournal.com]

It is legitimately and objectively true that this is racial prejudice aimed at Caucasians. This is in contrast to a hypothetical situation of white guys in Louisiana claiming to be "oppressed by affirmative action" or anything of that ken.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

*sigh* That word does not mean what you think it means. What you are actually communicating is "the racial prejudice[1] in this case conforms to the standards of law or principle which make it acceptable".

Synonyms are not indiscriminately interchangeable. Perhaps you meant "genuine" or "verifiable"? I refer you to rule 13 as outlined in Mark Twain's "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses".
---
[1] I would personally say "stereotyping", but I am restating what you are saying.

[jagash.livejournal.com]

Thank you for correcting my error. You do indeed understand the intended meaning of my statement and I appreciate it.

[fridgepunk.livejournal.com]

You do realise that japanese racism is mostly aimed at chinese and korean immigrants right? And that the specific joke dialect they've gotten the white people speaking is one more commonly used to ridicule those groups than white people (it's how shampoo from the Ranma 1/2 anime and manga speaks for instance).

So if you're looking at the history books and finding japanese supremicist humor a less than alarming thing, you may need to get your hands on some non-japanese history books published by someone that acknowledges the rape of nanking as a bad thing.

(it's all functionally America's fault for pumping fuck tons of money into "anti-comunist" japanese far right groups run by war criminals during the occupation but still... read up on the mad person who currently owns the Washinton Times who got his start in business organising anti-communist groups with all sorts of interesting connections with japanese war criminals if you want to google the linkages; it's a quite fascinating example of neo-nazi equivalent groups in non-western cultures if you're interested in that kind of thing)

[sivi-volk.livejournal.com]

You can just say "The Moonies are batshit."

[ipslore.livejournal.com]

Wait, what? Isn't that more of a Chinese stereotype?

[marlo.livejournal.com]

I have no problems with these ads whatsoever. White people are not victimized or oppressed in Japan (unlike, say, Koreans, or Ainu).

[jagash.livejournal.com]

While I had heard reports of Caucasians being heavily discriminated against in Japan, I fully realize that the plural of anecdote is not data.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Define "victimized" and "oppressed" for me, will you? And, while you're at it, discuss "discriminated against" in terms of the first two terms?

[marlo.livejournal.com]

Really? I can't believe people are even considering that the most American of American companies would actually, really have an ad campaign that was "RACIST" against white people.

White people may be treated "differently" in Japan (in this context you could say "discriminated", I suppose). This, however, is a FAR CRY from being economically oppressed. Koreans have been in Japan for generations and are still considered "Korean" and are not allowed citizenship. The Ainu were pretty much wiped out. White people on the other hand, by most reports, are getting laid left, right and center. It's like the land of fucking milk and honey over there for white people compared to, say, black people in America.

[faeriemuriel.livejournal.com]

But there's places where white people aren't allowed, with a few "Whites need not apply" signs popping up here and there. And they're supposed to smile, nod, apologize for not reading the sign, and leave peaceably.

I'm not saying that's worse than for the Koreans or the Ainu. But it's still discrimination.

[thipe.livejournal.com]

I would argue that the 'Gaijin' view is in part due to the way a lot (though not all) people act when visiting Japan. More often than not, it's a mix between drunken tosser and over-excited 12 year old Twilight fan. Yes, you get this everywhere, but it's much more noticeable if you're the only foreigner around. I'd also add that, in my experience, if you don't act like this you don't get tarred with the same brush (at least, outside of the obvious tourist areas).

The 'Land of milk and honey' for getting laid opinion that a lot have when travelling doesn't help either. There normally seems to be an air of desperation about those who go out there for this reason. The JET program has a lot to answer for, in this respect.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

I will note that "Whites need not apply" seems to me to be the kind of thing you'd expect to see in a hiring context; that suggests both that the signs aren't necessarily found in a tourist area, and that the question of how someone acts isn't coming up before they're being seen as undesirable.

[kierthos.livejournal.com]

I realize this is only an anecdote, but I know a guy who was over in Japan as a foreign exchange student, and he literally could not buy his own drinks for all the cute Japanese college-age girls wanting to spring for his alcohol.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard that before. What's the goal? Is it just cultural attraction like Australians have for Americans, or green card fishing, or what? I don't get the feeling that there's a huge group of people clamoring to get out of Japan, though admittedly I'm not really paying attention.

[kierthos.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't know. It's not like he was Brad Pitt handsome, but maybe they just wanted to party with an American.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I didn't say "racist". I said it was an offensive stereotype that plays into ignorant prejudices.

Which is something that happens a lot, to Gaijin in Japan.

(Also: You seriously think any McDonald's people in North America have *anything* to do with their other country branches, to the point of seeing the ads before they air?)

[marlo.livejournal.com]

All right, this is my fault. I've totally derailed what I was originally trying to say. I'm sorry.

What I meant was, there isn't any kind of history of white oppression in Japan, which means that the ad doesn't offend me in the least, because all it's doing is stereotyping white people. I understand that Japan can be a very xenophobic place, but this ad seems harmless.

I guess insofar as I am, say, a hipster just for example (even though I'm not, really), I also wouldn't be offended by some ad making fun of hipsters. Or an ad making fun of people who love to go to Burning Man.

[marlo.livejournal.com]

This Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan) on ethnic issues in Japan is a good one.

[ulitave.livejournal.com]

This is a lot of things, but racial discrimination? No. That implies a power structure, where the discriminator is on top and the discriminated (against) are on the bottom. That's just not the case in Japan, at least not for white Americans and Japanese.

[fearmeforiampink]

Generally, racial discrimination requires only that people be treated differently based on their race.

[ulitave.livejournal.com]

that assumes that the offending party always has greater social, political, legal, and financial power.

If a group with large social, legal, and financial power treats a groups with relatively little power poorly, then that's discrimination with real consequences. If the two groups have equal power, then it's a harmless joke. The second party might be annoyed or offended, but that's about the extent of it.

For example, Japan discriminates against Koreans. There are laws preventing Koreans from citizenship, although those are under review. There's a huge stigma against intermarriage or even dating (as long as the Korean presents himself as Korean. Many now refuse to speak Korean have anything to do with their heritage.) Korean women were abducted and used as prostitutes by the Japanese Army during WWII, when Japan annexed Korea. Kawasaki was the first major firm to hire a Korean - in 1997. Only three prefectures allow Korean nationals to vote, even though they came to Japan via annexation, forced to become citizens, and then had their citizenship revoked when Japan lost the war and ceded Korea. A joke against Koreans carries a lot of social weight, and is a reminder of their very real legal and financial hurdles in Japan.

White Americans don't face the same issues. At all. A Japanese joke against white Americans might be offensive and crude, but doesn't remind anyone of a historical pattern of domination and abuse.

[marlo.livejournal.com]

You've articulated it very well -- much better than I could. Thank you.

[fearmeforiampink]

I'm not saying this is as bad as what they do to Koreans. But that doesn't mean it's acceptavble, harmless or not discrimination. And as theweaselking and others says above,it doesn't seem to be a lone thing.

[cleodhna.livejournal.com]

Anything that makes McDonalds look like crap is good. That stuff may be ingestible matter, but it isn't food.

For the record, I love flied lice.