A very old image.

[theweaselking]

I will point out that, today, in 2009, if you go to a store to buy a MacBook "Pro", you *still* get only one mouse button.

EDIT: Several people inform me that modern MacBooks actually *do* have two mouse buttons - that large, flat, undifferentiated single-button surface below the trackpad is actually *two* buttons, and just *looks* like one button.

This is actually *worse* than shipping with only one button from an interface usability perspective. More useful, but *absolutely incredibly* boneheaded. Do you expect your spacebar to actually be "enter" if you press it on the right half?

Comments

[larabeaton.livejournal.com]

I have often heard this criticism of Macs, and I honestly don't get it. If you can get every option that you need from one mouse button, why would you need two?

Microsoft used to have three mouse buttons, and evidently didn't think that was such a great idea because they were eventually scrapped.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

First: All mice these days have 3-5 buttons. Left, right, wheel-click, wheel-up, wheel-down. At least.

Second: You *can't* get what you need with one mouse button. You need keyboard+button or two-fingers-tapping-in-perfect-unison to get context menus, on a Mac.

Third: Context-click has been standard for 20 years. And yet, Apple still hasn't caught up with the times to offer what people actually *use*, as opposed to what some clueless marketing jackass decided in 1980. See also: Every other Apple product, ever.

[fortysevenbteg.livejournal.com]

Come now, we wouldn't want to sully the ever-important "Mac Experience". *cough*

[cacahuate.livejournal.com]

You *can't* get what you need with one mouse button. You need keyboard+button or two-fingers-tapping-in-perfect-unison to get context menus, on a Mac.

False. You don't need to tap in perfect unison (which, incidentally, is not at all hard); you can simply place two fingers on the trackpad and click the button. This is extremely intuitive and easy for me, since I already have both fingers on the trackpad for two-finger scrolling (also easy and convenient). More importantly, on newer Mac laptops, you can designate a corner of the trackpad where tapping or clicking alone constitutes a right-click. On both the Mighty Mouse and the Magic Mouse, you can do something similar, as sleary noted.

Hate all you want, but at least do it based on actual facts.

[ice-hesitant.livejournal.com]

They will have to rip my third mouse button away from my cold dead fingers.

*pets his thinkpad*

Nice laptop, nice laptop...

[fearmeforiampink]

You can use two fingers on the touchpad for a right click.

And I agree with the comment above, it feels a somewhat absurd thing to focus on. It has one button less, so it must be not as good. Really? No.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Two fingers on touchpad is less precise, and requires extra attention, and is a pointlessly non-standard interface.

Right-click is clear, and unambiguous, and bog-standard. And Mac doesn't do it because Apple's interface designers are idiots.

[larabeaton.livejournal.com]

Right+click is clear and unambiguous to you, because you've used MS based computers forever. For anyone else who has either not used Windows-based computers, or who has not used computers at all, one mouse button is just as good and as clear as two.

It's all about what you're used to, and saying "Macs are stupid because they only have one mouse button" is as absurd as saying "all French people are stupid because they don't speak English".

[kafziel.livejournal.com]

It's not about using MS computers. It's about using non-Apple computers. Windows, Unix, Amiga, If you've used any system in the past twenty years that isn't an Apple-branded system, it's had two mouse buttons. The goddamn SNES mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNES_Mouse) had two buttons.

Apple is pointlessly obtuse for the sake of being "different". This has always been their design ethos. Hell, you need a second kind of click on Macs as well, but they expect you to use a modifier on the keyboard because we can't have a second button on our mouse.

[andrewducker]

Just as good?

You have a button to click on something to select it. How about if you then want to do something to it? Now you either have to use the other hand on the keyboard or go find a menu. With an extra button you can now get a menu right where you are!

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Now try to explain right click and contextual menus to someone over the phone, the same type of person who gets confused by the difference between clicking and double clicking.

[kafziel.livejournal.com]

And you think that person would be less confused by "Hold down this button on your keyboard while you click"?

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

I think the process of "click the File menu then click X" is less confusing, yes.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

You can make the menus accessible to stupid people without necessarily having the cripple the standard workflow of non-stupid people.

[andrewducker]

People seem to more find double-clicking hard to do than conceptually tricky.

And I've not found anyone that can't quickly get the hang of the difference between "this button selects things, that button gives you a little menu of things to do with it.", and I've trained 60-year old secretaries :->

[cacahuate.livejournal.com]

Except that that's not true. There are multiple ways to right-click that have nothing to do with your other hand or the keyboard. Are they ideal for new users? Maybe not. But are they perfectly fine for people who know what they're doing? Yup—in fact, I wouldn't trade my two-finger click for a second button, because it works great for me.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

I thought Jobs fired all the interface designers when he came back.

[lebongirl.livejournal.com]

Not trying to argue with you but the OS does support standard mice. I happen to be using a cheap-ass one from Targus (two button + scroll wheel) & all functionality works fine.

That being said, I've never felt hampered by Apple mice of the one button (w/ or w/o scroll wheel) variety.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

It does totally support standard mice. And yet, it comes with a touchpad and a single mouse button - you need a peripheral to get two mouse buttons.

[sleary.livejournal.com]

While I agree with you that a one-button mouse is asinine, it's not quite true that Apple is still selling them. The Mighty Mouse and the Magic Mouse both function as two-button mice. The surface is undivided, but if you press the right side, you get a right-click effect.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Peripherals are not relevant to this discussion. But are you telling me that that giant *single button* on the MacBook is actually two buttons and behaves differently depending on where you click it? Because that's better than "just one button" in one respect, and a hell of a lot worse in others - that's a button that *looks* like a single button, and *looks* like the exact same single button they've been using for decades, and acts completely differently not just from their own previous behaviour without a visual warning but also from *every other button out there*. You wouldn't expect a *space bar* to suddenly so different things when you press on different parts of it!

Holy crap, that's an even worse interface design idiocy than having one mouse button.

[skwidly.livejournal.com]

No, he was talking about the Mighty Mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Mighty_Mouse) and the Magic Mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Mouse). AFAIK, the trackpad is but a single button.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Why are mac users unable to tell the difference between their laptop and their mouse?

[undeadbydawn.livejournal.com]

I don't have one and haven't tried one [probably won't] but you do need to bear in mind that the Magic Mouse sells itself *specifically* on its touch sensitive nature. By the very fact of using one you are aware that it has to be handled a certain [user-definable] manner. Yes, you can actually tell it how to work.

Your 'space bar' argument is absurdly irrelevant.

Your obsession with it Being Different is also kinda lame, given that OSs, hardware and peripherals in general evolve constantly. Even Windows.

However [this is important]: the Mighty Mouse pissed me off something chronic. I hate it. Fucking dreadful design, even if I could use it without too much bother. I use a Kensington Expert Mouse, which has four programmable buttons and a bloody big trackball in the middle. Unfortunately the software is now obsolete, but it still works a charm. You may want to check it out, thought it's been superseded by the SlimBlade - which I don't like.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

What part of "peripherals are not relevant" is unclear, here?

We're not discussing the "Mighty Mouse" or the fact that you can get around the problem by plugging in a $5 USB POS mouse. And yes, I know MacOS X supports two-button mice, and sometimes even 3 button or greater mice.

This doesn't change that the Macbook ships with a TOUCHPAD with a SINGLE BUTTON ON IT.

And, depending on which conflicting report from which poster you listen to, all of whom seem to be consistently unclear on the difference between their Macbook and their EXTERNAL MOUSE, either that's a single-button, which is obsolete and abysmally stupid, or it's two buttons that *look like* one button, which is not just abysmally stupid but *exactly* like making the Space Bar do different things depending on where you press it.

[undeadbydawn.livejournal.com]

Haven't used the trackpad either, but I do know that *every single person* I know _has_ used one [which is a fair few people] have found it an absolute joy.


Question: have you ever used a computer with a programmable space bar? That is why your argument is absurd.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Nobody uses "programmable" built-in single-mouse-buttons on their trackpad, either.

[undeadbydawn.livejournal.com]

the trackpad surface has user-definable function areas

Golden Rule: when you have to pick on the use of a single word as an excuse to keep arguing, you've lost

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

And once again the Mac fan seems remarkably unclear about what, exactly, I'm talking about, and declares victory by arguing something completely different. Given how often it happens, one might even begin to think it deliberate.

Do you know what a "button" is?

A "mouse button", perhaps, one associated with a touchpad, such as is available on every laptop that has a touchpad?

Not on a peripheral.
Not on an optional device.
Not even on the $5 USB mouse you plugged in.

How many mouse buttons are there on a modern MacBook? And, if your answer is not "1", is this or is this not because Apple has put two sensors underneath a single double-wide button - much like seting a spacebar to really be "enter" when you hit the right hand side of it?

Two mouse buttons next to your touchpad is not stupid, if not ideal. One button, or one button masquerading as two, are both stupid, for different reasons.

[seriesfinale.livejournal.com]

I don't give a toss about Macs-vs-PC (I use a Mac at home and a PC at work and really prefer the Mac, but whatever), I just want to point out that this doesn't even make sense for the expense of a cheap joke ("He's retarded! And he likes Macs!....Get it?!?"). The one-button mouse actually requires more thinking and work. "More" being pretty relative of course.

[the-trav.livejournal.com]

depends on how you model thought...

More options give you a larger bandwidth of thought, more actions required but less options gibe you a larger depth of though.

For someone like gump, who has low bandwidth (and low throughput as well it seems), taking a longer time to do something with less options is probably going to be easier...


Could I kill the joke any more?

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

More like "a very old and stale complaint." The CrapBook Pro i got from work a month and a half ago does right-clicks with one finger, and the multi-finger gestures are very easy to pick up. Please go cry to your mommy.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Are you telling me that that giant *single button* on the MacBook is actually two buttons and behaves differently depending on where you click it? Because that's better than "just one button" in one respect, and a hell of a lot worse in others - that's a button that *looks* like a single button, and *looks* like the exact same single button they've been using for decades, and acts completely differently not just from their own previous behaviour without a visual warning but also from *every other button out there*. You wouldn't expect a *space bar* to suddenly so different things when you press on different parts of it!

Holy crap, that's an even worse interface design idiocy than having one mouse button.

[sebkha.livejournal.com]

Oh, you'll love this: the surface of the current ships-as-standard mouse with the desktop machines is wireless and buttonless. It uses multitouch to generate all the different controls that you'd find on a multibuttoned mouse: click, right-click, slide your finger for scrolling, two-fingered slide for previous/next.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

....

Every time I think Apple's hit a new usability low, they dig further.

[sebkha.livejournal.com]

...actually, I think it's a gorgeous mouse, and I expect to get one in the next week or so. O_O;

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

Once you've spent ages learning how to use it, it's just as functional as a regular, non-insane mouse!

[shemale.livejournal.com]

even though the first thing i think when i see someone with a macbook is "doooouuuch", the magic mouse actually looks kinda cool

[shemale.livejournal.com]

whoops, here's the link i meant to include: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPQ6r9GE1gA

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

It's configurable. I found it intensely obnoxious for about a couple of hours until i learned how to use it. Then i realized that it's pretty nifty.

You can cry all you want about "interface design idiocy", and Apple is certainly guilty of many, but this one ain't it.

[almostwitty]

The primary reason why I won't buy a Mac is because it has no right-hand button.

I was forced to attempt to create productive websites and content on a 1999 Mac (in 1999) and in a fit of rage I went up to my boss and said I NEED A RIGHT-HAND MOUSE BUTTON. THIS MAC SUCKS

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

You've been able to attach a non-stupid mouse to a Mac for years. They just don't *come* with non-stupid mice.

[everbloom.livejournal.com]

All mice suck. Tablets rock.

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

this is that same "PC is better because it has 2046 awesome commands like deltree" argument that people have made for 20 years. Which is fine if you like memorizing complex systems.

I use a PC and am generally stymied by macs. But those mac people, they love the hell out of their mac devices.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

No, this is the "Macs are stupid because multiple mouse buttons are standard, better, faster, and long-established technology that their OS supports, but they still insist that the defective workflow of a single incompetent 'interface designer' in 1980 is better than what the rest of the world actually uses"

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

yes, that is the other, more negative side of that same argument.

don't tell me you don't know what the deltree command does.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

It's "rm -rf"'s brain-damaged kid brother.

But that's not the point at all.

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

it's exactly the point!

and another point is your inability to grasp what other people are saying and liking. To you, the Macs are bad and their users are all crazies.

and well, they are crazies, but they have their own internal logic.