I'm not sure it's witchcraft at all. Granted, it's every bit as scientifically valid as witchcraft, but don't go lumping in quack medicine with a religion. That's sort of a bad precedent.
There is no functional difference between believing in magic-based antifact medicine and believing in any other kind of magic.
My main objection to calling it "witchcraft" is that it's also the same as all other religions, and "witchcraft" is being used pejoratively in a way they wouldn't have if they'd said "Christianity" or "Scientology".
it's easy to get away with - but also, 'witchcraft' has several 'accepted' uses ... it's been pejorative - in ways that 'christianity' and 'scientology' are not - for centuries.
Somebody offered me distance reiki, once. At least it didn't do any material harm, though if I'd relied solely on that then the argument could certainly be made.
That's not a good metaphor. Newton was a Christian, but he didn't present calculus as part of his religion. He did, in fact, a lot of theological writing but he didn't couch calculus in the language of angels and trinity. (Well, he made a few motions toward the prevailing dogma in some of his forwards, but the meat of the Principia Mathematica was devoid of theology.) However, a lot of herbalists of the pre-modern era did wrap up their practices in religion and folklore. They didn't separate useful chemical compounds from ritual; they rarely had the knowledge to do so.
Cherry-picking successful treatments and pulling them out of the cultural context is an excellent practice for developing those treatments, but a bad one for historical context.
I like this particular paragraph from the article:
Advocates of homoeopathy say even if the effect of the remedies is to work as a placebo, they are chosen by thousands of people, and do not carry the risks and side effects of many mainstream medicines.
They don't harm you or have side-effects because they do nothing!
I knew a Doctor once, who handed out M&Ms as medication. When challenged on this, he insisted they were as good as antibiotics in treating most ailments. He even had statistical charts proving he was right.
he wasn't around for long. I've no idea what happened to him.
The health service's response, two months later: http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/july07/pages/nhs-homeopathy.aspx (http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/july07/pages/nhs-homeopathy.aspx)
The Government has decided to continue to allow homeopathic hospitals and treatments to be received on the NHS, where local doctors recommend them.
It agrees that the efficacy of a treatment is important, but said there are many considerations when making policy decisions, and that patient choice is an important factor to consider.
There's really nothing more to say about that. The statement is that the efficacy of a treatment is ignored in favour of other factors in the decision whether to allow it.
I had a client once, who angrily insisted on having his legs washed down with alcohol hand gel twice a day. I asked a Doctor to speak to him, tell him why this was a shitty idea [he had the worst dermatitis I've ever seen]. The Doctor, in the worst case of Failing To Get The Hint I've personally witnessed, looked at the bottle and said 'oh, this stuff doesn't seem to bad'
a nurse I worked with had to take the GP aside and explain to him that I had to waste up to an hour a day pandering to this guy's temper while he refused to allow the treatment that would actually help. And had been proven to help, several times.
GP replied that as far as he was concerned the client had the right to demand this treatment, and we should all just get on with it. which was nice.
at a recent parent-teacher meeting, my daughters' teacher expressed 'concern' that she was aware of negative numbers. This was *way* beyond her stage in the Curriculum and could confuse the poor dear. Mum very patiently explained that she had asked about negative degrees, and I had told her about the freezing point of water. We mentioned that she'd learned the times tables at home as well.
'Oh, we don't cover those at all any more'
the end times arrived quite a while back. We've only just noticed.
I do wonder where this whole 'balance' thingy came from. but even worse than that is the BBC's so-called impartiality, which involves just not saying when something is known to be total balls. I'm fairly sure they used to do at least a little fact-checking, and an awful lot of people relied heavily upon it.
we're now in the perilous position of a few comedians who have the freedom to poke holes in everyone else, and a handful of reporters still brave enough to piss off their corporate overlords.
I don't believe the in-our-days story of how it used to be much better. Homeopathy has always been promoted by the NHS, since its inceptions, which incidentally was when UK doctors argued against universal healthcare. Informed Consent can be a flawed strategy (particularly if you're sensitive to the monetary and time cost of treatment; the general public aren't happy when you tell them the only reason you're opposed to something is that you'd "waste up to an hour a day"), but it's much better than denying kids with diphtheria treatment. GPs prescribing antidepressants in a shotgun fashion are bad, but before that it was benzodiazepines, and before that it was barbiturates and referrals for a lobotomy.
Education? Ask a left-handed kid, and a left-handed 70-year-old. Sure, we might overshoot sometimes and end up making school all playtime, but did reality really matter more to teachers who interrupted class for a round of corporal punishment rather than a silly song?
no. policy is not informed by science, despite loud exclamations suggesting it is.
policy is shaped by money. science, and evidence, is a factor, but it doesn't often shape the agenda.
policy-makers are constrained by politics long before many can bring science to bear (and for a great many, they don't have the background to get to the science). education is a policy platform. it's about outcomes, not learning.
a long, long time ago, education was about learning how to learn and how the think, while being exposed to ideas and problems upon which to hone them. but for the vast majority, education - especially once industrialised - has been about being prepped to be useful.
not sure what a contemporary education is preparing students for ... bewilderment? consumption? life-long childhood?
teachers are given a largely impossible task, made worse by politics and lack of direction in administrations that are trying to make it to the next election while remaining less awful than the alternative one ... *sigh*
this is not about any longed-for lost past. i've had one foot in the education 'sector' and another in industry or public service for the past two decades or so. it's been a constant march on our bellies, with no real direction - at least none beyond the election cycle or the financial reporting waltz.
no system is perfect, nor can they be. but we've disengaged consequences from power/authority for decades now. outsourcing being the most obvious manifestation of that process.
by the by, i've seen plenty of people side-lined because helping them was inconvenient. lefties, troubled kids, bright kids. those easily labelled as difficult ... individuals matter - but only to other individuals. systems only care if people in them do. and it's very easy to get snowed-in.
The GP's response seems perfectly rational to me. He didn't want to waste time arguing with an idiot (the patient) who has already made up his mind, and it wasn't *his* time being wasted on alcoholic gel.
All the GP had to do - literally, nothing else required at all - was say 'this stuff is no good. You should let your carer do [bleh].'
instead he 100% removed any leverage I had to refuse to carry out 7 man hours of fucking pointless *and actively harmful* work per week
that's rational only if you do not care, at all, for a: your patients wellbeing b: the time and effort other people have to waste. AFTER this has been specifically pointed out to you at great length by a highly experienced nurse specialising in geriatric and dermatological practice.
Oh, I'd told him it was crap. So had the Nurse. The GP had not.
the GP refusing to do so removed it as an argument.
His skin not only continued to deteriorate, his pores got blocked and he ended up with legs swollen to twice normal size. The skin eventually burst. I had to deal with that. The GP did not.
Efforts to apply the treatment that actually worked eventually succeeded when I refused to carry out the alcohol gel procedure for a week. I got a Social Work Department enquiry for that. His legs, surprisingly enough, showed considerable improvement after a mere few days of the proper treatment. The client continued to insist he was correct, arguing that I just hadn't used enough hand gel.
ironically he was one of my closest friends [at least in as much as a client can be a friend]. He wanted to adopt me as his son. He died early 2010, after one month in hospital.
I was credited with single-handedly keeping him alive for 7 years, usually despite his best efforts. His death hurt. I miss the old bastard terribly.
I suppose that is a fairly accurate assessment. Both homeopathy and "witchcraft" do produce their medical benefits in the exact same way: the placebo effect. Just like I've trained myself to get headache relief from tic-tacs rather than having to use tylanol. And just like that, I wouldn't rely on it for anything life threatening.
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(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 04:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 04:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:03 pm (UTC)My main objection to calling it "witchcraft" is that it's also the same as all other religions, and "witchcraft" is being used pejoratively in a way they wouldn't have if they'd said "Christianity" or "Scientology".
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 10:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 10:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-21 02:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 04:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:15 pm (UTC)Somebody offered me distance reiki, once. At least it didn't do any material harm, though if I'd relied solely on that then the argument could certainly be made.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:21 pm (UTC)I find faith healing a pretty silly form of ritualised hoping, regardless of the faith attempting to conduct it.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:37 pm (UTC)It's like... Isaac Newton was a Christian and an alchemist, but that doesn't mean that calculus is religious, y'know?
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:59 pm (UTC)The conversation does remind me of Tim Minchin's Storm - which you've likely heard, but if not here's an excerpt.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 07:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 07:07 pm (UTC)Cherry-picking successful treatments and pulling them out of the cultural context is an excellent practice for developing those treatments, but a bad one for historical context.
Key bit is at 2:55.
Date: 2011-01-20 06:03 pm (UTC)win
Date: 2011-01-21 01:35 am (UTC)who is this guy? this is win.
Re: win
Date: 2011-01-21 01:58 am (UTC)Re: win
Date: 2011-01-21 03:10 am (UTC)went googling to find out *who* he is ... :D
Re: Key bit is at 2:55.
Date: 2011-01-21 11:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 05:14 pm (UTC)They don't harm you or have side-effects because they do nothing!
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-21 03:39 am (UTC)he wasn't around for long. I've no idea what happened to him.
Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-20 06:21 pm (UTC)There's really nothing more to say about that. The statement is that the efficacy of a treatment is ignored in favour of other factors in the decision whether to allow it.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-20 11:03 pm (UTC)I asked a Doctor to speak to him, tell him why this was a shitty idea [he had the worst dermatitis I've ever seen]. The Doctor, in the worst case of Failing To Get The Hint I've personally witnessed, looked at the bottle and said 'oh, this stuff doesn't seem to bad'
a nurse I worked with had to take the GP aside and explain to him that I had to waste up to an hour a day pandering to this guy's temper while he refused to allow the treatment that would actually help. And had been proven to help, several times.
GP replied that as far as he was concerned the client had the right to demand this treatment, and we should all just get on with it.
which was nice.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 02:54 am (UTC)reality. it just doesn't matter anymore ... O.o *headdesk*
popularity has replaced pretty much any rational criteria for anything. the most important evaluation in education: did the kids *enjoy* themselves?
not, did they *learn* anything. did they have fun.
western civilization. the enlightenment. science.
all too hard. so let's skip to the bread and circuses ...
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 03:04 am (UTC)at a recent parent-teacher meeting, my daughters' teacher expressed 'concern' that she was aware of negative numbers. This was *way* beyond her stage in the Curriculum and could confuse the poor dear. Mum very patiently explained that she had asked about negative degrees, and I had told her about the freezing point of water. We mentioned that she'd learned the times tables at home as well.
'Oh, we don't cover those at all any more'
the end times arrived quite a while back. We've only just noticed.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 03:27 am (UTC)and the ridiculous bullshit that 'everyone's opinion matters!' *headdesk*
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 03:35 am (UTC)I do wonder where this whole 'balance' thingy came from.
but even worse than that is the BBC's so-called impartiality, which involves just not saying when something is known to be total balls. I'm fairly sure they used to do at least a little fact-checking, and an awful lot of people relied heavily upon it.
we're now in the perilous position of a few comedians who have the freedom to poke holes in everyone else, and a handful of reporters still brave enough to piss off their corporate overlords.
we need a revolution, so frickin bad.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 01:10 pm (UTC)comedy has long been the last preserve of criticism, of truth-telling.
no revolution unless we do it.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 08:59 pm (UTC)Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 09:56 am (UTC)I don't believe the in-our-days story of how it used to be much better. Homeopathy has always been promoted by the NHS, since its inceptions, which incidentally was when UK doctors argued against universal healthcare. Informed Consent can be a flawed strategy (particularly if you're sensitive to the monetary and time cost of treatment; the general public aren't happy when you tell them the only reason you're opposed to something is that you'd "waste up to an hour a day"), but it's much better than denying kids with diphtheria treatment. GPs prescribing antidepressants in a shotgun fashion are bad, but before that it was benzodiazepines, and before that it was barbiturates and referrals for a lobotomy.
Education? Ask a left-handed kid, and a left-handed 70-year-old. Sure, we might overshoot sometimes and end up making school all playtime, but did reality really matter more to teachers who interrupted class for a round of corporal punishment rather than a silly song?
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-21 01:32 pm (UTC)policy is shaped by money. science, and evidence, is a factor, but it doesn't often shape the agenda.
policy-makers are constrained by politics long before many can bring science to bear (and for a great many, they don't have the background to get to the science). education is a policy platform. it's about outcomes, not learning.
a long, long time ago, education was about learning how to learn and how the think, while being exposed to ideas and problems upon which to hone them. but for the vast majority, education - especially once industrialised - has been about being prepped to be useful.
not sure what a contemporary education is preparing students for ... bewilderment? consumption? life-long childhood?
teachers are given a largely impossible task, made worse by politics and lack of direction in administrations that are trying to make it to the next election while remaining less awful than the alternative one ... *sigh*
this is not about any longed-for lost past. i've had one foot in the education 'sector' and another in industry or public service for the past two decades or so. it's been a constant march on our bellies, with no real direction - at least none beyond the election cycle or the financial reporting waltz.
no system is perfect, nor can they be. but we've disengaged consequences from power/authority for decades now. outsourcing being the most obvious manifestation of that process.
by the by, i've seen plenty of people side-lined because helping them was inconvenient. lefties, troubled kids, bright kids. those easily labelled as difficult ... individuals matter - but only to other individuals. systems only care if people in them do. and it's very easy to get snowed-in.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 06:18 pm (UTC)Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 06:28 pm (UTC)instead he 100% removed any leverage I had to refuse to carry out 7 man hours of fucking pointless *and actively harmful* work per week
that's rational only if you do not care, at all, for a: your patients wellbeing b: the time and effort other people have to waste. AFTER this has been specifically pointed out to you at great length by a highly experienced nurse specialising in geriatric and dermatological practice.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 06:30 pm (UTC)Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 06:40 pm (UTC)the GP refusing to do so removed it as an argument.
His skin not only continued to deteriorate, his pores got blocked and he ended up with legs swollen to twice normal size. The skin eventually burst. I had to deal with that. The GP did not.
Efforts to apply the treatment that actually worked eventually succeeded when I refused to carry out the alcohol gel procedure for a week. I got a Social Work Department enquiry for that.
His legs, surprisingly enough, showed considerable improvement after a mere few days of the proper treatment.
The client continued to insist he was correct, arguing that I just hadn't used enough hand gel.
Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 06:41 pm (UTC)Re: Now for the depressing part
Date: 2011-01-24 06:45 pm (UTC)ironically he was one of my closest friends [at least in as much as a client can be a friend]. He wanted to adopt me as his son. He died early 2010, after one month in hospital.
I was credited with single-handedly keeping him alive for 7 years, usually despite his best efforts.
His death hurt. I miss the old bastard terribly.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 06:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-21 01:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-01-20 07:18 pm (UTC)