I only found out about UKIP recently. It's depressing that a) there's a worse option than David Cameron; and b) it seems like they are Euroskeptics not just out of xenophobia, but because the EU's austerity policies aren't harsh enough.
Since I've been getting their leaflets through my door on a regular basis I think I can sum up their policies with:
ARGLEBARGEL JOHNNYFOREIGNER!!! ARGLEAAAAAAAA DARKIES!!!! AGAAAAAFOAMWRETCHAAAA BLOODY HOMOS! AAAAAJGHGOIUIGIUGI DARK SATANIC EUROPE FROM WHICH ALL EVIL DOTH COME!!!!!!!!!!
But that may be a little more sophisticated than your average UKIP position
To be fair, Obama is more right-wing than David Cameron. American politics in general skews more to the right than UK politics does.
But yeah, I don't think I could really argue that Obama is more right-wing than UKIP at all. It seems like a more respectable option for people who would support the BNP's policies, but would find it distasteful to actually vote for them.
I like how referring to UKIP MPs as "loonies and closet racists" doesn't seem to have adversely affected David Cameron's political career. By far the most sensible thing he's ever said in a political interview.
I reckon Obama would be on the leftish wing within the Tories, thus slightly to the right of centre for the general UK position, Cameron is slightly closer to the centre (whereas Clegg is just to the left of the centre but only just scrapes that due to strong stance on stuff like redistributive taxes). Farage is on the right wing of the Tory party but on the left (scarily) compared to most (but not all) UKIP members.
Actually met Farage once, could tell he was completely convinced his worldview was the only sensible one but was open to debate, unlike many of his supporters who're, frankly, so very racist it's silly (and yeah it is a more respectable BNP, the latter never got anywhere in places like Torbay, where I grew up, but the pensioners who move there and think of themselves as respectable, etc vote UKIP in droves).
My general international barometer is "health care". Which means that Obama is significantly to the right of Stephen Harper and the National Socialist Party Of Canada[1] because not even the CPC (non-communist) are dumb enough to think that private-only, even "mandatory private-only", is a workable solution.
[1]: My standard joke about Canadian federal parties is that there's the separatists, incompetent socialists, national socialists, and Liberals. The advent of the Greens kind of makes me want to add "and the irrelevants" but also kinda makes me not want to add them.
I have to look at stuff from a more rounded view tho (because, y'know, occasionally still write policy proposals that get through the system)—by the standards of the US, what Obama's done for health is a major progressive move that can be built on, even if by the standards of the rest of the civilised world it'd be a massive retrograde step to even introduce it, hence Mr Cameron's lot want to move in that direction for the UK, obviously.
One of the weird things about UK politics that I can't get my head around currently is the complete failure of the Greens this Parliament, breakthrough election of their first MP, the centre-left protest votes up for grabs as my lot go into coalition, yet the Greens have got nowhere, even in parts of the country where they've been strong: their then leader became their first MP, then promptly resigned the leadership for inexplicable reasons, they elected a prominent blogger as their new leader and, um, nothing.
They had an open goal, and are basically irrelevent still, whereas UKIP have really managed to capitalise on the disillusioned Idiot vote that think Cameron's a rabid socialist, combined with the not-a-racist-but bunch. Farage repeats the same lies, even having them proven to be lies on broadcast TV, but just goes on and on with them anyway. And people believe him.
I have to look at stuff from a more rounded view tho
I wasn't suggesting *stopping* there, just starting: If you want a general idea of roughly where a foreign party sits, look at health care.
Farage repeats the same lies, even having them proven to be lies on broadcast TV, but just goes on and on with them anyway. And people believe him.
It's the Fox News play: Repeat a lie over and over, ignore debunkings without even addressing them, and keep going. A good chunk of your audience will believe the lie eventually. See also: John Wright's recent antifactual screeds about writing, creationism, teabaggers.
I think the Greens haven't really made much of an impact because they're so not heard of - one of the problems with Farage is his vileness provokes the media to follow him. The Greens don't have the same media profile or presence
I approve of your barometer - for instance, our current clown in office is suggesting introducing a user pays fee on top of our public health care. ie: going backwards at a great rate.
"It seems like a more respectable option for people who would support the BNP's policies, but would find it distasteful to actually vote for them."
We [said] on the doorstep: ‘If you’re a BNP voter cause you’re a skilled/ semi-skilled worker who thinks his job has been seriously impinged upon, his income’s gone down, his local community’s changed and he’s not happy with the make-up of the local primary school, whatever it may be. If you are a BNP voter for those reasons but you don’t support the BNP’s racist manifesto and you are effectively holding your nose at voting BNP, don’t vote for them, vote for us. We are a non-racist, non-sectarian alternative to the British National Party.’ It was the first time that we ever said to BNP voters: ‘Come and vote for us.’ - Nigel Farage, quoted in this book (http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/explaining-the-rise-of-ukip/).
Thought you might be interested in this from a Minecraft server I play on. Being built in survival (aka beg-borrow-steal-your-own-materials) instead of god mode.
I used to play on The Aporkalypse, which was among the biggest (in terms of pure square mileage) MC servers ever. We always looked smugly at people who built in Creative mode.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 04:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 05:11 pm (UTC)ARGLEBARGEL JOHNNYFOREIGNER!!! ARGLEAAAAAAAA DARKIES!!!! AGAAAAAFOAMWRETCHAAAA BLOODY HOMOS! AAAAAJGHGOIUIGIUGI DARK SATANIC EUROPE FROM WHICH ALL EVIL DOTH COME!!!!!!!!!!
But that may be a little more sophisticated than your average UKIP position
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 06:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 10:53 pm (UTC)But yeah, I don't think I could really argue that Obama is more right-wing than UKIP at all. It seems like a more respectable option for people who would support the BNP's policies, but would find it distasteful to actually vote for them.
I like how referring to UKIP MPs as "loonies and closet racists" doesn't seem to have adversely affected David Cameron's political career. By far the most sensible thing he's ever said in a political interview.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-08 01:48 am (UTC)Actually met Farage once, could tell he was completely convinced his worldview was the only sensible one but was open to debate, unlike many of his supporters who're, frankly, so very racist it's silly (and yeah it is a more respectable BNP, the latter never got anywhere in places like Torbay, where I grew up, but the pensioners who move there and think of themselves as respectable, etc vote UKIP in droves).
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-08 01:57 am (UTC)[1]: My standard joke about Canadian federal parties is that there's the separatists, incompetent socialists, national socialists, and Liberals. The advent of the Greens kind of makes me want to add "and the irrelevants" but also kinda makes me not want to add them.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-08 02:18 am (UTC)One of the weird things about UK politics that I can't get my head around currently is the complete failure of the Greens this Parliament, breakthrough election of their first MP, the centre-left protest votes up for grabs as my lot go into coalition, yet the Greens have got nowhere, even in parts of the country where they've been strong: their then leader became their first MP, then promptly resigned the leadership for inexplicable reasons, they elected a prominent blogger as their new leader and, um, nothing.
They had an open goal, and are basically irrelevent still, whereas UKIP have really managed to capitalise on the disillusioned Idiot vote that think Cameron's a rabid socialist, combined with the not-a-racist-but bunch. Farage repeats the same lies, even having them proven to be lies on broadcast TV, but just goes on and on with them anyway. And people believe him.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-08 11:23 am (UTC)I wasn't suggesting *stopping* there, just starting: If you want a general idea of roughly where a foreign party sits, look at health care.
Farage repeats the same lies, even having them proven to be lies on broadcast TV, but just goes on and on with them anyway. And people believe him.
It's the Fox News play: Repeat a lie over and over, ignore debunkings without even addressing them, and keep going. A good chunk of your audience will believe the lie eventually. See also: John Wright's recent antifactual screeds about writing, creationism, teabaggers.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-08 07:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-09 04:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-13 05:23 pm (UTC)We [said] on the doorstep: ‘If you’re a BNP voter cause you’re a skilled/ semi-skilled worker who thinks his job has been seriously impinged upon, his income’s gone down, his local community’s changed and he’s not happy with the make-up of the local primary school, whatever it may be. If you are a BNP voter for those reasons but you don’t support the BNP’s racist manifesto and you are effectively holding your nose at voting BNP, don’t vote for them, vote for us. We are a non-racist, non-sectarian alternative to the British National Party.’ It was the first time that we ever said to BNP voters: ‘Come and vote for us.’
- Nigel Farage, quoted in this book (http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/explaining-the-rise-of-ukip/).
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-13 05:31 pm (UTC)Yeah he's not dogwhistling AT ALL and the UKIP are totally non-racist.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 06:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 07:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 08:54 pm (UTC)Shots like that make me laugh so much at the predominant American view of the British as refined, polite, and stodgy.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-07 10:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-09 09:24 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-05-10 08:31 pm (UTC)