(no subject)

[theweaselking]

So, as a Canadian dude watching the UK elections, fact-check me:

The Democratic Unionist Party are Irish "American Republicans",
The UKIP are English "American Republicans",
The Conservative Party are British "American Democratic Party" which is to say mostly like a British version of "Canadian Conservative Party (non-communist)", right?

Comments

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

nooooooooo. Labour is closer to the American Democrats, and the Conservatives/Torys are like American Republicans.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

So, Labour are a far-right party, and Conservatives are an American Republican-style extreme-right party?

What does that make UKIP and DUP? If Conservatives are American Republican, how could UKIP and DUP possibly move *further* and still get seats? I'm familiar with, like, Constitution Party and Dumbass Toaster-Faced Catholic Party parties, but they don't get SEATS.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

I'm getting this from mostly said friend in Scotland who is Labour in her heart and soul (and I think really wanted to get shitfaced tonight but couldn't). But UKIP is even more racist and fascist than the Torys: England for the English, fuck the EU, all that.

Labour is... yeah, comparing them to the US Democrats isn't a fair cop, because they believe in shit like socialized health care and the NHS and paying for education and the like.

I can't help you with the DUP.

[ashbet]

Yeah, UKIP is explicitly racist, xenophobic, and anti-immigration -- that's basically their platform.

Kind of a cross between American Republicans, Libertarians, and the KKK.

-- A <3

[dionysus1999.livejournal.com]

Oh, you mean like the Tea Party douchebags.

[ashbet]

Pretty much, although they have some different issues (the Tea Party is explicitly anti-government and wants to change the system of taxation and representation, whereas to my knowledge, I'm not aware of UKIP being explicitly pro-disassembling the system of government in the UK.)

But, yeah -- they're basically like the worst of the Tea Party douchebags, but they use fewer dog-whistle terms for their racism.

-- A <3

[daveon.livejournal.com]

The conservatives are more like the republicans. They have actually bought into austerity, but with added tax hikes mostly on the poor through increased consumption taxes.

UKIP - British Tea Party

DUP - Irish conservatives for the most part, Northern Ireland has it's own parties and politics so they get seats.

UKIP got a seat via a defecting Conservative, it looks like it's staying that way.

[andrewducker]

I'd say that _most_ Conservatives are between the Democrats and Republicans - but with some spreading all the way to full on Republican.

Labour leadership are Democrats, but Labour MPs (and members) spread from there all the way to actual left-wing.

And yeah, UKIP is the Tea Party.

The big differences between US and UK politics are:
1) A lot less religion. So less "It's ok to rape women, God would prevent it if it was really bad."
2) A lot less racism. At least, overt skin-colour racism. Foreigners are still bad, obviously.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I feel it would be rude to equate the SNP with the Bloc Quebecois, because I have never seen a reason to believe that the SNP are deliberately stupid.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

According to a friend of mine in Scotland, they kind of are.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Having seen the Bloc Quebecois up close, I can't imagine that the SNP could be as terrible.

[andrewducker]

They aren't. They're more authoritarian than I'd like.

Which is still less than 90% of other parties out there.

[skington.livejournal.com]

The SNP have two of the canniest politicians of our generation: Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Historically the SNP were referred to as "Tartan Tories", but they've moved first to the centre, and then to the centre-left in the last few years, effectively stealing Labour's clothes. They've been in government in Scotland since 2007 (minority at first, then a majority from 2011 - which the electoral system was designed to make sure would never happen), and generally appear to be doing a good job.

David Cameron had the opportunity to say "OK, the Union won, but the Scots have legitimate grievances so let's hear them out and heal the country" after the indyref, but instead went full-on partisan and started talking about English nationalism instead. This has wrong-footed Labour and led to a surge of "Oh yeah? Well fuck you" in Scotland, fuelled by the SNP campaigning to the left of Labour at this latest Westminster election and promising to lock the Tories out of government, which basically made it safe for ex-Labour supporters to vote SNP.

They look like winning another Holyrood election in 2016 with another stonking majority, and if Cameron has decided to call an EU referendum they could potentially say in their manifesto that they want another vote on independence if the UK as a whole decides to leave the EU but Scotland voted to stay inside. Which is alarmingly plausible.

As Andrew said, though, they do have annoying centralising authoritarian tendencies, and they're not actually as left-wing as they say they are. But they're not idiots.

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

the tories and the democrats are politically about the same, while labour is - still - to the left of both, and the republicans to the right of both. the us republicans are really closest in ideology to ukip. there's no exact analogy with the SNP. The lib dems have no principles at all.

[ronebofh.livejournal.com]

Democrats aren't trying to delete what passes for socialized medicine in this country, so maybe Tories are Blue Dogs?

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

I'd say more UKIP are Tea Partyists and the Conservatives are like moderate Republicans. The DUP is a regional party and are difficult to sort them into the US hierarchy.

[skington.livejournal.com]

The Northern Irish parties identify themselves primarily based on sectarianism rather than left-right. The DUP are slightly more right-wing than the UUP, and Sinn Féin are more left-wing than the SDLP, but the most important thing to know is that the DUP and UUP are protestant and unionist, whereas the SDLP and Sinn Féin are catholic and pro-independence (Sinn Féin want it right now and don't take their seats in Parliament because that would involve swearing an oath of allegiance to the Queen; the SDLP are more woolly).

The DUP had insisted that if a hung parliament were to happen, they'd be happy to do a deal with either Labour or the Tories. The SDLP take the Labour whip.

[fridgepunk.livejournal.com]

Any party with "Unionist" or "Ulster" in their name in Northern Ireland is basically the Southern Baptist Church - we don't have rules against overt religious sectarianism, so you have multiple competing sections of the militant wing of the anglican church running to fuck over catholics if possible.

UKIP are american republicans.
Conservative Party is the American Democratic Party
Libdems were basically Ron/Rand Paul/American Green Party.
Labour was the Canadian Conservative Party (non-communist)
The SNP are the Canadian NDLP
Plaid Cymru are Bloc Quebecqouis
Greens are Rachel Maddow.

[matgb]

Pretty much nailed it, yeah, the DUP are the nutty lunatic fringe "you can't let Gay people near kids" religious lunatics (seriously unhinged about it as well) but, for ethnographic reasons, are the largest party in Northern Ireland. UKIP are the Tea Party, the Conservatives are a mix of moderate republicans and right leaning democrats, but have a fringe of teaparty types who're better off in UKIP but actually like getting reelected.

Weirdly, the one UKIP MP that got reelected having defected from the Tories is actually a genuine small-state non-racist Libertarian type, with a functioning brain and everything.

Jennie worked in the office of the nearest Lib Dem MP to us, she got her notice of redundancy today, he lost by a country mile :-( We're spending a bit of time relaxing then job hunting and serious rebuilding-party-capacity has to happen.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

the one UKIP MP that got reelected having defected from the Tories is actually a genuine small-state non-racist Libertarian type, with a functioning brain and everything.

Weird. Why'd he leave the terrible-but-not-always-racist party for the always-racist no-functioning-brains party, then?

I used to know a sensible guy who worked for Arlen Specter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlen_Specter). Specter, despite starting with the racist party and swapping parties when the racism swapped and being pretty racist himself, attracted some sensible sorts who he was willing to listen to and consider, even if he thought they were mostly commie mutant traitors.

[matgb]

Why'd he leave the terrible-but-not-always-racist party for the always-racist no-functioning-brains party

In the land of the blind?

Seriously, the guy is very strongly anti-EU, it's his big single issue, but he's also very very smart. He's now the biggest fish possible (a legitimate, elected MP in his own right and on GE day not a by election) in a small pond where virtually everyone else is a minnow.

If he can get elected leader, which is likely, he can be a massively influential speaker and let the idiots blow the racist dog whistle for the core votes while concentrating on trying to win the referendum campaign that's inevitable now.