(no subject)

[theweaselking]

“Islamic Terrorism” is not a distinct real thing and adults in contact with reality do not consider it worth thinking about. A good cartoon.

(Joke format stolen from A Good Cartoon who is just brilliant.)

Comments

[dantheserene.livejournal.com]

Do you have a preferred term for murdering people over cartoons of the prophet, for example?

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Part of the issue here is that the phrase "Islamic Terrorism" is not a simple combination of the concepts of "Islam" and "Terrorism", it's a racist dogwhistle used by genocidal assholes.

Similar to: if a concerted effort was underway to eliminate all white people from an area, you still wouldn't call it "white genocide" because that's a loaded term with a specific additional meaning.

Similar to: People who care about men's health issues, social stigma preventing men from getting help for mental illness or from reporting being raped, or making sure men get fair custody hearings in a divorce? Are not "men's right's activists", because MRA does not mean "activist concerned with fair treatment of men", it means "misogynist". It's a loaded term with an additional meaning.

[dantheserene.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I got distracted and just read your response. So the short answer is, you don't have a preferred term for murdering people over cartoons of the prophet?

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I like "terrorism", like shooting up an abortion clinic or planting a bomb at a building in oklahoma city or flying a plane into an IRS building.

The point is, no matter what term you use, it shouldn't be "Islamic Terrorism", since that's a racist dogwhistle with an additional overloaded meaning, like "men's rights activist" or "ethics in games journalism".

Now did you have a wider point or were you just sealioning again?

[chrisrw109.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I can 100% agree with you here. While I agree that it is sometimes used in the context of racist bullshit... there is a sub-section of terrorism that falls under the specific header of acts done by radicalized followers of misinterpreted tenets of Islam. It's a large enough sub-section that calling it by that name is warranted.

The MRA analogy isn't a 100% fitting analogy because while there were people that had those concerns before the MRA movement, they weren't calling themselves 'MRA activists'. Where 'Islamic Terrorism' was a thing long before the Trumps of the world started using it as their strawman for an endless array of racists statements and policies.

It's also distinct from just blanket 'terrorism' because for the longest time while they did directly attack their enemies, they also attacked those who were simply seen as supporters of Israel, or simply the international status quo. The other acts you mentioned were more or less directly targeted against those they felt were 'wronging' them, or who they wanted to have change their actions. You can argue that the Anti-Choice crowd is more in lines with the former however, since they've been known to do such awesome things as terrorize third-graders to try to get some nebulous powers that be to cancel construction of a clinic... because they're fucking assholes.

I'm not sure it's any less accurate to call some acts 'Islamic Terrorism' than it is to call others 'Christian Terrorism' or 'MRA terrorism'.

[glenn-3.livejournal.com]

Does anybody ever call anything "Christian Terrorism", though? In the US, at least, every time a white Christian does something like shooting up Planned Parenthood, it seems to get labeled simply as a tragedy caused by mental illness and personal issues. No portion of blame is never laid on the religion. I fear the same would be true if an MRA asshole followed through on his online threats of rape and murder--it would probably be blamed only on him, and his regrettable mental illness, not on his philosophy.

(Actually, the media seems reluctant to even view acts not committed by Muslims as terrorism at all. During the all-day coverage of the shootings in California, they stressed over and over that it might be terrorism, but nobody should jump to conclusions because they didn't know who was involved yet. If the shooters had turned out to be white Christians, I really think they would have decided it was not terrorism after all.)

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I fear the same would be true if an MRA asshole followed through on his online threats of rape and murder--it would probably be blamed only on him, and his regrettable mental illness, not on his philosophy.

This has already happened, several times.

[glenn-3.livejournal.com]

Well, there you go, then: so not terrorism, I didn't even know. Bleh.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

It's been happening for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Collier_Township_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre

(I only picked some of the biggest and most obvious *mass* ones. There's an uncountable number more with fewer victims, or where the victim and MRAsshole both lived.)

[chrisrw109.livejournal.com]

But the fact that how we cover acts of violence in the US (and internationally) is sincerely fucked up, doesn't mean that the phrase 'Islamic Terrorism' is only used by racist pedagogues.

Other countries accurately apply the word terrorism to attacks. The US is, I agree, incredibly stupid in how we handle things, where if it's a Caucasian shooter then it's the act of a lone disturbed individual, if it's a black shooter it's obviously either gang-related or #blacklivesmatter, but if it's a Muslim shooter than OH MY GOD TERRORISM.

And of course we have to remember above everything else that every mass shooting event is an extremely isolated, unprecedented event... just like the last one.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

the fact that how we cover acts of violence in the US (and internationally) is sincerely fucked up, doesn't mean that the phrase 'Islamic Terrorism' is only used by racist pedagogues.

I kinda think that in practice? It is. At least recently, in the USA.

[chrisrw109.livejournal.com]

Except.... it isn't.

I'm not willing to let the Republicans, Fox News, Donald Trump, and crazy people determine what is and isn't reality for me. Just because they have begun using it that way, and using 'Radical Islam' to mean ALL Muslims are evil doesn't mean that's what that phrase means.

Words have significant power, and as soon as we allow the assholes to co-opt the meaning of language to fix their debate we've already lost... and then the Muslims win.

(Yes, that was a poor joke, sue me).