John watches movies!

[theweaselking]

So I got two sets of free tickets to see movies recently, and so I saw Star Trek: Beyond and Ghostbusters, in the theatre, for free.

And I have opinions!

Beyond: Holy shit! I wasn't going to go see this movie, even free. I only wound up attending because 1) free and 2) someone else wanted to go who couldn't use my free tickets unless I went too. And: I did not immediately want to demand my money back. (no really, for a Star Trek movie that's HUGE). As it turns out: removing JJ Abrams and installing Justin Lin and Simon Pegg is not only a many-thousand-times improvement[1] across the board, but results in a movie that's ACTUALLY WORTH SEEING.

But yeah. ST: Beyond is the fourth Star Trek movie *ever* worth seeing a second time[2]. It avoids 99% of the Abrams innumeracy (a clear sign that Abrams was prohibited from touching the script), has actual character elements, has a reasonable conflict between the heroes and the villains, and is a perfectly Justin Lin movie: Lots of moderately-sensible action sequences, lots of FUN action sequences, moments of character interspersed in the action sequences, and builds to a decent finale. My main complaints are THAT IS NOT A FUCKING NEBULA and there wasn't quite enough clarity on the nature of the enemy. Still, given that it's a sequel to a movie where a CRITICAL PLOT POINT is that HUMANS ON EARTH CANNOT SEE THE MOON, those are miniscule.

Ghostbusters: Uh. I think this needed one more script pass. I hate dumping on it because of the hypermisogynist babymen screaming about it, but: I thought it was good, but needed work. First: There's a whole lot of "jokes" that aren't jokes, they're just the punchlines to jokes from the original movie. As in, multiple times where there was a funny sequence in the original? Instead of duplicating or or riffing off it, this movie just gives the punchline without the setup. That's a REFERENCE, not a joke, people, and references aren't inherently funny. Second, the film appeared to have no coherent idea of how ghosts work. Okay, the proton packs control ghosts and let you move them around, good. Then they discover they need a trap, okay, good. Now it's time for the big problem, aaaaaaaaand... now proton packs and all the rest *kill* ghosts outright instead of holding them. Why? Nobody knows. The dude causing all the problems has Phenomenal Cosmic Powers to control the bodies and minds of anyone in line of sight.... and then he doesn't. No explanation, nothing. All the ghosts are people until suddenly they're... the ghosts of a Macy's Parade that wasn't murdered all at once because whatever. All the ghosts are ghosts of normal people who died except for the three-story-tall ghost of a giant man?

And, I mean, they built up Kevin's eye/ear confusion MULTIPLE TIMES. He rubs his eyes when he can't hear you. There's a loud gong and he grabs his eyes going "OMG that's LOUD!". And then he shows the team his audition photos, saying "what makes me look more like a doctor? Shirtless Chris Hemsworth PLAYING the saxophone or Shirtless Chris Hemsworth LISTENING TO the Saxophone".... and he's holding the sax to his ear, not his eyes. That's *the payoff* to the joke you've been building for three scenes, and you flubbed it?

And let's not forget that at the climax of the film, the ultimate fix to the entire ghost problem happens BECAUSE THE GHOSTS DROVE ECTO-1 TO THE PLOT POINT AT THE RIGHT TIME. They didn't think of that! They didn't work for that! That was a win because of a pure accident! That's just bad writing.

The pacing was weird, there were a bunch of references where there should have been jokes, there were a number of missed opportunities for jokes that had clearly been set up and then abandoned, and the solution to the main problem was presented WAY too much as pure coincidence, not something the characters did or earned. Dammit, these are competent Esoteric Scientists(tm), they should not be reliant on stupid luck causing THE VILLAINS to bring the solution to the problem to them. This was a chance for them to do things, to come up with a solution and work to bring it about! Having the villains just solve the problem for them felt cheap.

Anyway. I want to see the director's cut of this movie, where the credits "villain makes cops and military dance" sequence is restored , and the Ghostbusters find a solution to protect themselves from it. I'm interested in the director's cut where they do something to ATTRACT the ghosts and retrieve ECTO-1 at the critical moment. I'm interested in the sequel, where they presumably won't make all these mistakes a second time. But for the movie itself, I have to say "I got in for free and I got my money's worth, no more."

Also, the product placement was obvious and gross: Stopping mid-scene, staring at the camera, and extolling the virtues of Pringles? People living in downtown New York ordering *PAPA JOHN'S*? Ugh. People, you do not need their money that much.


[1]: Argument that "JJ Abrams is a zero" and thus multiplying him also results in a zero are accepted and then discarded, because Abrams doesn't just make awful movies. Abrams takes films that COULD be good, and ruins them. He is not a zero, he is a 0.001. You can, with enough effort, fix Abramsisms and make an Abrams film "less awful than most Abrams products" (Spielberg and Super 8) or "reasonably good as long as you ignore Abrams' desperate attempts to ruin it" (Lawrence Kasdan, Disney, and Star Wars: The Force Awakens)

[2]: Wrath Of Khan, Undiscovered Country, and Galaxy Quest[3].

[3]: Galaxy Quest not only IS TOO a Star Trek movie, it is the best Star Trek movie ever AND the best Star Trek movie POSSIBLE.

Comments

[secretagentmoof]

You didn't like "the one with the whales", sometimes known as IV?

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Not enough to ever watch it a second time.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

But there are nuclear wessels!

And what I think are supposed to be Norwegian whalers. On the Pacific Ocean. A stone's throw from L.A. For absolutely no reason at all.

[skiriki.livejournal.com]

And if you crank up the volume, they are actually shouting in Finnish.

[leecetheartist.livejournal.com]

In Australia, we got to see the end credits where the villain made the cops and military dance. It was cool.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the standard end credits. What I meant was, they clearly filmed that entire sequence for the main film, and then cut it. I want that restored to the main film, along with the Ghostbusters finding a solution to the ghost's mind control instead of just walking right through it with everyone, including the ghost, forgetting he can do that.

[rose-cat.livejournal.com]

Why haven't I heard more love for Undiscovered Country? (Or did I miss it? I didn't see the movie until several years after it came out.)

Are you including ST: TNG movies?

And yes, Galaxy Quest most definitely counts.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I have no idea why more love isn't shown for Undiscovered Country. I missed it in theatres, too.

And yes, I'm including the TNG movies. Notice how many of them made my shortlist for "would watch a second time"?

[damerell]

Excuse the necro. I did like Undiscovered Country (and I agree with the Khan > UC > everything ordering) but in retrospect I'm a bit disappointed in the ending; there's a point where everyone we know is alive in TNG is in the rear hull and everyone else is on the bridge, and clearly at this point Kirk should detach the saucer [1] and go down in some kind of blaze of glory rather than getting a stupid death in Generations.

[1] they can, it's just difficult to reattach it.

[rdmasters.livejournal.com]

I'll disagree on the matter of Ghostbusters. I loved it.

On the matter of Galaxy Quest though, I agree completely. 110% the best Trek movie ever possible. "That's just wrong..."

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I liked Ghostbusters well enough, I just think it wasted a lot of potential and spent too much time making references to the original (and too much time being defensive about the squealing babymen, too). I think it was an okay-to-good movie that was stopped from being great by some obvious flaws, and needed another editing pass.

I'm definitely in for the sequel, though.

[rimrunner.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much with you on Ghostbusters. I enjoyed it a lot, but thought the script needed to bake a little longer to really be good. The character interactions were what made it for me, and Chris Hemsworth going all in with his character's daffiness and obviously enjoying every second. (He needs to do more comedy.)

Haven't seen ST yet. Almost anything would be an improvement on the last installment, though.

[jerril]

I disagree with you on the idea that those references were supposed to be jokes, and instead should have been pulled out and replaced with jokes. I think the movie isn't filled with as many jokes as you think it is, and therefore you're misidentifying things as "bad jokes" that are indeed not funny, because they were never jokes. I thought toning down the sketch comedy aspect wrt the original was a great idea and improved the pacing.

The proton-pack-gun sequence was specifically called out as being new extremely over-upgraded equipment that could hurt ghosts, not just capture them. I would have liked a sequence demonstrating that with one or two ghosts before going completely batshit with it, but it was (briefly) explained.

I concur that there are also flubbed jokes (the saxaphone), it's really damned annoying the girls have to be bailed out by Slimer to win the day, and product placement clangers bleh. I forgive the evil balloons and slenderman. They're sort of big-lipped-alligator-moments, but they *were* cool. But you're right, not explained, randomly there.

You could fridgelogic Ultimate Evil Dude forgetting about his mind control because he's in the brain of a total airhead, but they didn't mention anything like it so it's a bit of a stretch. It would have been brilliant to reference the eyes-ears problem while he was possessed though - and THEN you could fridgelogic it. But they missed that chance because they'd dropped that ball already.

[frith]

I'm going to see the Trek movie tomorrow so I'm going to skip anything that discusses that movie (my town plays one movie in English per week. It's either go see it or stay home). But I saw Ghostbusters last Thursday, so game on!

In short, Ghostbusters was a cruddy movie. All three scientists were pretty similar and did not have the diversity of character that the original three had. OK, I liked the tech wiz scientist. She was funny and reckless. Otherwise, the tenure story and the 'had we known you had a department here we would have kicked you out already' plots are really stale and tired. The bastard dean of the one fingered salutes was not funny. One fingered salutes worked with the imprisoned underdog in Gardians of the Galaxy but not some boob running a university. OK, some loony was running around setting off ghost portals on ley lines. Boring. Fourth ghostbuster just waltzes in and says hire me. She didn't come across and being sufficiently motivated to drop her day job. The secretary? Too stupid to answer a ringing phone? Really now, and three scientists hire him. Also, the movie had no inherent concept how particle accelerators work. A particle accelerator grenade? Really now? The special agents might just as well have been cardboard cutouts.

Ghostbusters II was also a cruddy movie.

Galaxy Quest is a great movie.

[frith]

I saw the new Trek movie a week and a half ago. (Last Thursday is was Jason Bourne on the silver screen here.) Who ever directed it did a moderately good job, although I had a few eye-rolling moments. Such as the sound and waves in space (I think it was in the "nebula") with no medium there in which they could propagate. The motorcycle, and a road on which to drive it (with what, 200 year old fuel??). A convenient cliff off which to "jump start" a starship. A starship that was never meant to fly in atmosphere but which crashed through rocks pretty much undamaged on the way out. A character who speaks fluent English, hacks into Starfleet communications, but has some difficulty remembering who or what they were. Snow globe town and the uncharted nebula seem to be like right next to each other. Could that asteroid cluster be more dense? And was it formed like yesterday? What is holding all these huge, pristine rocks so close together in space? Oh, and that doomsday device. So very underwhelming. It was like that early, slow kill phaser the collector had in ST:TNG, only slower. Unless the effect accelerated geometrically, it looks like it would take years to consume a planet.