Sources to explain Vampire.

[theweaselking]

If you wanted to give someone media sources (film, books, movies, etc) to explain Vampire[1], what would you give them?

I'd start with:
Les Miserables (specifically, Lloyd Webber as opposed to Hugo, and the character of Javert. Javert is a PERFECT vampire. Valjean, not so much, but workable.)
The Godfather (If you can find a character in that movie who isn't suitable as a vampire or a ghoul or a mortal minion, I will eat my cat. And she'd kick my ass.)
Amadeus
The Empire Trilogy by Raymond Feist and Janny Wurts ("Killing Lord Goto *is* a polite note.")
Discourses on Titus Livy by Niccolo Machiavelli
Othello, by William Shakespeare

I would avoid:
The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli, unless I was *certain* that the person I was giving it to would understand that The Prince is purest flattery, defining the perfect ruler as Cosimo de Medici for the sole purpose of getting the author employed by Cosimo de Medici. It's good advice, if you're Cosimo de Medici. Not so much, if you're not.
Every Splatbook published by White Wolf, unless I was *certain* that the reader could understand that all the splatbooks are written from a fallible, IC perspective.

How about you?

[1]: Masquerade or Requiem, doesn't matter. It's the same game, with different mechanics

Comments

[torrain.livejournal.com]

For Status specifically, you could do worse than hitting them over the head with a copy of Barbara Hambly's excellent Benjamin January series.

The movie Brick wasn't bad; a little heavy on the noir, but the social setting did give you a very status-conscious, law-free society.

[lurkerwithout.livejournal.com]

I like your picks. I'd add the movie "Near Dark" as a good example of a roving Sabbat pack (or their equivilant for the new edition). P.N. Elrod's Johnathan Barrett and Vampire Falls books. And the first 3 Sonja Blue books by Nancy Collins. AVOID the actual Sonja Blue in the World of Darkness book, just because its such a terrible book...

[dolston.livejournal.com]

I really can't think of any better.

[harald387.livejournal.com]

Every time I watch The Godfather, I am struck by how perfect it is for Vampire.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Given that Vampire is partially based on The Godfather, that's not too surprising.

The trick is, I want to know what I can give to modern players, people born post-Godfather, to best explain things.

[sivi-volk.livejournal.com]

How modern do you have to be to be post-Godfather? Admittedly, I've never seen the movies, but I've read the book.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

Thirty-five years old.

(That said, some people *do* see the movie despite not having been born when it was in theatres, but it's not really common. I hadn't seen it until about three years ago, when John insisted.)

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

The Godfather came out in 1972.

There are people who haven't seen it. Or Apocalypse Now.

This is a very serious problem.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

I admit I hadn't seen it (Godfather) until 2001. I've made up for that by watching it and it's just-as-good sequel (note the singular form) many, many times since then however.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter when you saw it. It matters that you saw it, and you understand.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

I was just hanging my head in shame that it took so long.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

*smacks forehead*

George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.

Nobility, status, binding tradition, correct behaviour in the face of same, and *every single character* is just a bit of an outsider so hopefully players who have to counterpoint or contradict the society in some way[1] will get clues about how to do it without creating something totally inappropriate.
---
[1] I do this. I believe it's not inherently bad. I also believe that if it's done in a heavy-handed fashion, practically nothing will wreck the session and smash suspension of disbelief faster.

[jerril]

Phantom of the Opera might be a good one, presuming of course your subject doesn't scream at the mere thought of Andrew Lloyd Webber (I recommend they read the original novel). It's a story of power and control, obsession, neurosis, and how being a powerful, inhuman being doesn't actually make you immune to a mob with pitchforks, or immune to great angst for that matter.

I think Erik would work as an inspiration for a Toreador or a Nospheratu, depending on which parts of the character you steal.

[jerril]

Ack, sorry, brainfart with that tag there.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Or you could steal the character wholesale, and he works really well as either. Or as a Malkavian. Or *maybe* as a Brujah, but Toreador and Nos as the best choices.

[fearmeforiampink]

There's a statted up NPC in the revised Malk clanbook, he's a Prince (possibly of Paris), who has Power Object Obsession and Multiple Personalities, with a quiet and emphathic personality with his mask (the power object) off, and a domineering, charismatic and manipulative Prince as the other personality.

More like the Disworld phantom, but still an interesting characer.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Yup, I remember him. Revised Malk clanbook. Prince of Ravenna.

He's not bad, as such things got.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

Deadwood.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

A good choice - I'd be hesitant to recommend it to people who Don't Get Vampire because the guys in Deadwood are a little too quick to kill.

I mean, it *makes sense* in their situation, with no authority and no Prince and no consequences - but that's the the way Vampire normally works.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

That's very true, but one of the things that I think would also be worth seeing to people who Don't Get Vampire is the fact that the head of the camp wasn't elected, didn't answer to "the people" and pretty much got away with anything he and his subordinates felt like getting away with because he was just that powerful. I don't know if I'd call Al the Prince, but - despite Mayor Farnum's title - he was the guy pretty much in charge of the camp.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Al Swearengen might have been the Prince.

And Cy Tolliver was a Primogen at least, and George Hearst was at least a Princely contender.

That's not the point. Swearengen could never claim to be Absolute Monarch, but he made a great Prince. I just don't want to give that example to players who are too stupid to get vampire in the first place, because I think they'd learn all the wrong things from it.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, maybe save it for Learning Vampire 201.

Although, I am wondering why you'd want to associate with players that stupid in the first place. If they can't get the idea from the material that they're given by White Wolf that the game isn't about silver-plated katanas and laser powered electro fisitcuffs, I'm not sure there's much of anything that's going to help them.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't *want* to.

It's a side effect of LARPs. In the effort to produce enough players to make a LARP worthwhile, you necessarily have to let in players who you'd never want to game with normally, and you have to hope that they're not going to make your LARP irredeemably dumb in the process.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

Either that or not LARP at all. Works for me.

Well, uh, not works works, but far preferable to having to teach people not to be dumbasses.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

It's really tempting, sometimes.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

I'm really surprised you didn't give up first. Then again, judging by the players I know you have up there, your mediocre ones must be better than the best down here.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Excellent suggestions!

[xrmndml.livejournal.com]

Miller's Crossing.

Its the story of a Prince losing control of his city.

[ryusen.livejournal.com]

the three sources i always cite are: The Godfather, Dynasty, and Heathers... the last if you want a good example of how status and the "Popular kids" works...

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I never like using Heathers - the popular kids are idiots and the heroes are the people who kill the popular kids. That gives the exact *wrong* impression of Vampire, and it encourages "Hah! This is my revenge for High School!" thinking in the kind of people who got left out in high school - which is to say, people with poor social skills and difficultly processing subtleties.

Meaning it's counterproductive to EXACTLY the target audience I'm aiming to improve.

[ryusen.livejournal.com]

Yeah Point for that. I still liked Dynasty, cause it was really an eternal struggle between two Elders and their Children.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

For status, I've always had what I consider to be an amusingly ridiculous example: a scene from the 1987 Dragnet movie with Dan Aykroyd and Tom Hanks.

There's a scene when Joe Friday - who is a respected cop - goes into a restaurant's restroom to arrest a prominent reverend because a witness identified him as being part of a local cult that kidnapped her. We as the audience know this is true. The reverend is at the restaurant where the arrest happens with the police captain and the police commissioner. As Friday leads the reverend out, he stops at the table where the other two are sitting. The reverend claims he has no idea what is going on. The commissioner completely believes the reverend, orders Friday to release him, and has the police captain strip Friday of his badge and gun. In this scene, truth doesn't matter as much as the reputation of the person saying it. It's such a weird example, but it works on so many levels.

It always irritates the shit out of me when someone with a half dozen status is ignored over some neonate just because this thing called "Aura Perception" exists, especially when that's actually said in black and white in the V:tM book.

[ryusen.livejournal.com]

not sure if i'm more scared that you cited it or that i remember it...