If you have a non-crappy engine, why waste it with a crappy setting? People come up with the dumbest things to frighten them, when the stuff they do to other people is far more terrifying.
YMMV but I like aspects of the Chaosium system. I tend to run it for short convention games tho (3 to 6 hour one-shots), not for long term campaigns, so that might influence me.
I've not had a chance to play Savage Worlds, but I've read through it. I don't think its for me, tho I can see the appea.
A) really crappy stats - yes, you're only supposed to roll when it's really important, but when it *is* really important, an extremely good person has about a 30% chance of success? Pah!
B) The SAN rules that would easily take a character completely out of play for extended periods of time on a single bad roll. That roll would happen about 20% of the time - so, you'd be EXPECTING at least one player to sit around and do nothing for a while every time a mythos-ish thing happened.
a) on the other hand, saying "Medicine 70%" gives con goers an instant grasp of how good they were, vs systems where they go "what's 5 mean? good or bad?"
b) I think that's partly the fault of the people running/writing stuff. If you immediately go "BAMM CTHULHU SHOWS UP!" or something equivilent, then yeah, everyone goes mad. For con games at least, you dont have a big goobly until the end - everything else is minor 1 or 2 point losses...
That being said, I'm running Masks of Nylarthotep at the moment, and there's massive AND NOW YOU DIE san losses even early on. So you have a valid point when the printed material from the company does lead to needing a new pc every 3 sessions.
#1: Even a "1/1d6" has a 1/3 chance of hitting the 5-point "you're fucked" barrier. #2: The barrier gets easier to hit when you consider that all those 1-point losses for succeeding at up and count towards your 5. #3: A single appearance of a standard single-adventure creature - a Nightgaunt, a Byakhee, etc - is likely to cause that 5-point loss to at least one PC. And we're still talking *before* the climax of the adventure, not during or after.
Isn't the 5 point thing 5 in one go vs 10% over time? I don't have me tome here.
I dunno, I've written a 3 session game where a nightgaunt was _the_ big beastie. :)
I also don't think temporary insanity has to take the pc out of the game. There are many cool things you can do by feeding an insane pc incorrect information - feeding them their hallucinations or deranged assumptions as if it was normal game play. Harder than "woah ho, aren't trees scary!" but more rewarding.
I know some of the old cthulhu folks, and I think they've said that some of the madness stuff was there to make it dangerous, really dangerous, because when it was being put together they were trying to avoid "ok, cthulhu has a 100 hit points, so if we do X amount of damage a turn.."
That all being said, there are downsides to having pcs turned to sausage meat all the time, and the game does lend to that
I'm torn. I like Savage Worlds. It's an exceptional system for it's area of focus.
The problem is that Savage Worlds' area of focus is kick-in-the-door action-adventure, and COC doesn't fit that environment at all. Maybe they'll be able to compensate for that if they change some SW fundamentals, but then it wouldn't be SW anymore would it?
It makes more sense using the new WOD system. Core WOD. None of this "Look at Me Being a Scary Monster" foolishness.
They borrow very heavily from COC in terms of atmosphere and presentation, and the adventures I've seen written for it follow the COC format closely. Why force a game through a system that doesn't fit it's focus when there's another system that was written with that game in mind?
they're certainly different. As THG says, if your game is about the PC's being heroes who come through despite terrible odds and injuries, then savage worlds is your story. if you want a realistic system where you're not likely to live through a fight against 2-3 guys, then WoD is your game.
Savage Worlds get deadly in an awful hurry with a few small modifications. Your PCs will tend to have a very serious advantage against nobodies, but you'll have that same advantage in WoD or D&D or GURPS, too - there, you'll just have more levels and points.
Savage Worlds: $10 Realms Of Cthulhu: $20 Total: $30
WoD main: $45 Each supplemental sourcebook if you want them: $40.
For you, who has already bought the books, absolutely, it makes sense. For somebody coming at it from scratch, Savage Worlds is a cheaper alternative that I feel could still handle the grim horror adventures more than adequately.
(My lovely wife has decided that she has no interest in any of the "monster" games in NWoD, but adores the main pure-human setting stuff, so she buys each new one as it comes out. I think she skipped Armory. But other than that, I've got the entire set to work from, as well)
A) only required some cutting and some relatively simple re-layout work from an already-completed book, meaning the further investment into the edition on top of the $40 hardcover original and revised editions was relatively small
B) had an extremely good deal with the publisher - basically, they got a one-time offer that gave them the chance to try it without going out of business if it failed, and, having tried it, have found that it is a success.
Actually, the masks of nyalarthotep game I'm running is an NWoD werewolf game. Its too splattery for hoomans, and even the uratha are having a hard time of it in places.
I've run and played Trail of Cthulhu - which uses the Gumshoe rules. I guess it depends upon whether you like investigative vs full-on pulp style games, so YMMV. But it is worth having a look if you haven't already.
I really enjoyed it - it sidesteps the whole investigation adventures being ruined/derailed because of a dodgy roll by a PC, i.e. you know the kind of adventure where the art historian character fails to notice that a 12 foot tall statue of a Deep One has a mythos connection because they flubbed their key skill.
the characters as investigators always get enough basic info to progress the plot, and can finesse this information or get extra info by deploying their skills, specialities and through (shock horror) roleplaying.
I'd recommend it - high production values and an eruditely written rule/sourcebook by Kenneth Hite.
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Date: 2009-02-01 09:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 12:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-01 09:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-01 10:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-01 10:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-01 10:21 pm (UTC)I've not had a chance to play Savage Worlds, but I've read through it. I don't think its for me, tho I can see the appea.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-01 10:27 pm (UTC)A) really crappy stats - yes, you're only supposed to roll when it's really important, but when it *is* really important, an extremely good person has about a 30% chance of success? Pah!
B) The SAN rules that would easily take a character completely out of play for extended periods of time on a single bad roll. That roll would happen about 20% of the time - so, you'd be EXPECTING at least one player to sit around and do nothing for a while every time a mythos-ish thing happened.
I simultaneously agree and disagree
Date: 2009-02-01 10:34 pm (UTC)b) I think that's partly the fault of the people running/writing stuff. If you immediately go "BAMM CTHULHU SHOWS UP!" or something equivilent, then yeah, everyone goes mad. For con games at least, you dont have a big goobly until the end - everything else is minor 1 or 2 point losses...
That being said, I'm running Masks of Nylarthotep at the moment, and there's massive AND NOW YOU DIE san losses even early on. So you have a valid point when the printed material from the company does lead to needing a new pc every 3 sessions.
Re: I simultaneously agree and disagree
Date: 2009-02-02 12:47 am (UTC)#2: The barrier gets easier to hit when you consider that all those 1-point losses for succeeding at up and count towards your 5.
#3: A single appearance of a standard single-adventure creature - a Nightgaunt, a Byakhee, etc - is likely to cause that 5-point loss to at least one PC. And we're still talking *before* the climax of the adventure, not during or after.
Re: I simultaneously agree and disagree
Date: 2009-02-02 10:40 pm (UTC)I dunno, I've written a 3 session game where a nightgaunt was _the_ big beastie. :)
I also don't think temporary insanity has to take the pc out of the game. There are many cool things you can do by feeding an insane pc incorrect information - feeding them their hallucinations or deranged assumptions as if it was normal game play. Harder than "woah ho, aren't trees scary!" but more rewarding.
I know some of the old cthulhu folks, and I think they've said that some of the madness stuff was there to make it dangerous, really dangerous, because when it was being put together they were trying to avoid "ok, cthulhu has a 100 hit points, so if we do X amount of damage a turn.."
That all being said, there are downsides to having pcs turned to sausage meat all the time, and the game does lend to that
A Most Obscure Geek Culture Reference
Date: 2009-02-01 10:56 pm (UTC)Re: A Most Obscure Geek Culture Reference
Date: 2009-02-01 11:23 pm (UTC)Re: A Most Obscure Geek Culture Reference
Date: 2009-02-01 11:29 pm (UTC)Re: A Most Obscure Geek Culture Reference
Date: 2009-02-02 12:43 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 01:14 am (UTC)The problem is that Savage Worlds' area of focus is kick-in-the-door action-adventure, and COC doesn't fit that environment at all. Maybe they'll be able to compensate for that if they change some SW fundamentals, but then it wouldn't be SW anymore would it?
It makes more sense using the new WOD system. Core WOD. None of this "Look at Me Being a Scary Monster" foolishness.
They borrow very heavily from COC in terms of atmosphere and presentation, and the adventures I've seen written for it follow the COC format closely. Why force a game through a system that doesn't fit it's focus when there's another system that was written with that game in mind?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 01:59 am (UTC)(But the last time I ran Call Of Cthulhu, I used WoD)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 02:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 12:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 02:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-03 02:16 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 02:16 pm (UTC)Realms Of Cthulhu: $20
Total: $30
WoD main: $45
Each supplemental sourcebook if you want them: $40.
For you, who has already bought the books, absolutely, it makes sense.
For somebody coming at it from scratch, Savage Worlds is a cheaper alternative that I feel could still handle the grim horror adventures more than adequately.
(My lovely wife has decided that she has no interest in any of the "monster" games in NWoD, but adores the main pure-human setting stuff, so she buys each new one as it comes out. I think she skipped Armory. But other than that, I've got the entire set to work from, as well)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 05:13 pm (UTC)I can't believe they're offering the core rules for $10 and still making any profit at all.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 05:31 pm (UTC)A) only required some cutting and some relatively simple re-layout work from an already-completed book, meaning the further investment into the edition on top of the $40 hardcover original and revised editions was relatively small
B) had an extremely good deal with the publisher - basically, they got a one-time offer that gave them the chance to try it without going out of business if it failed, and, having tried it, have found that it is a success.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 05:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 10:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 08:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 05:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 05:33 pm (UTC)I really enjoyed it - it sidesteps the whole investigation adventures being ruined/derailed because of a dodgy roll by a PC, i.e. you know the kind of adventure where the art historian character fails to notice that a 12 foot tall statue of a Deep One has a mythos connection because they flubbed their key skill.
the characters as investigators always get enough basic info to progress the plot, and can finesse this information or get extra info by deploying their skills, specialities and through (shock horror) roleplaying.
I'd recommend it - high production values and an eruditely written rule/sourcebook by Kenneth Hite.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-02-02 03:31 pm (UTC)Can I play?