Great moments in characterisation:

[theweaselking]

"Multiple perps, heavily armed. Driving erratically, under the influence of drugs. I'm taking fire."
"Do you require backup?"
"No."

Related: Ways in which Dredd is better than Batman:

#1: All. Every way, completely, in every respect, forever.

More specifically: Like Batman, Dredd is the product of a dystopian authoritarian state, and, like Batman, Dredd is literally authorised to kill you on the spot and will never suffer any consequences for doing so. And yet, Dredd treats this authority with respect. Batman does not.

When a (genuine, verified, reliable) psychic Judge tells Dredd that she's 99% certain they have a multiple murderer in custody, Dredd points out that you can't execute on 99%. Meanwhile, Batman will torture someone he thinks *might be* a witness to a crime because he thinks they might be a witness. And after they talk, he beats them senseless in a way that almost certainly leaves them dead.

When criminals are escaping in a vehicle and hit a civilian, Dredd carefully shoots our their tires, stops their car, and pursues on foot. Batman drives a tank and fires rockets that often miss and hit civilian buildings, disregards pedestrian lives in a way not seen since Carmageddon, and has an almost Man-Of-Steel-level disregard for civilians.

When a couple of teenagers confront Dredd with lethal weapons, Dredd goes out of his way to take them alive and treat them as minors. Criminal minors who get time in the iso cubes, granted, but minors. Batman simply beats them to death.

Dredd > Batman. They're the same neofascist authoritarian cop ideal, they have the same pathological fear of poor people (although Dredd is clearly shown to be WRONG to fear the poor, while Batman's narrative constantly reinforces that his terror of poor people is justified. Poor people are, after all, monsters who are just barely held in check by the mores of civilised society and the presence of men with guns ready to shoot them the instant they step out of line), and they have the same absolute immunity from legal consequences. But Dredd *gets* that he is the law, and that his absolute authority carries with it a responsibility. Batman, meanwhile, just wants to beat up people he hates.

Comments

[ariaflame.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember one Dredd thing that had him arrest another new proto-judge who unnecessarily hit prisoners.

[rdmasters.livejournal.com]

And even turned against the chief judge when that worthy started making overtly unjust laws.

Not to mention the whole Judge Death thing...

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

But Batman is consequence-free!

[resonant.livejournal.com]

Interesting. Now i want to read Dredd.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Watch the movie! It's quite good.

(The recent one, with Karl Urban, not the older one with Sylvester Stallone)

[aeduna.livejournal.com]

The Stallone one has its moments... "I'll just delete the artifical pixels" for instance. Also for seeing Jurgen Procnow chewing the walls.

I find Batman almost as boring as Superman.

I reckon the lego movie was having a totally justified go at the character:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqv_LUStxDw

[chrisrw109.livejournal.com]

The Karl Urban movie: The Raid: Judged Edition

Was pretty fantastic. I was always sad that they never felt like doing a follow-up to it. It gets the tone right, and gives you a legitimate sense of why the Judges in general, and Dredd in particular are such that you don't see them as outnumbered, so much as on an even field.

[martinl-00.livejournal.com]

"Batman, meanwhile, just wants to beat up people he hates. "

The whole point of (most) Batman is to construct a narrative where beating up "bad" people is not only justified, but stylish, moral, and necessary. It is a very specific kind of escapism.

[kafziel.livejournal.com]

That movie was goddamn perfect, and criminally neglected at the box office.

[ashbet]

Totally agreed.

Dredd is brutal as fuck, but he's enforcing the laws as they are written, and *justice for all* is his watchword.

Batman is a vigilante, and he believes in justice for all "civilians" -- but he thinks that criminal behavior, or being a "goon," should be punished with extreme force, outside the justice system.

Depending on who is writing him, Batman can be better or worse -- but the Christopher Nolan Batman definitely loathes and fears the poor.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Well put.

[dionysus1999.livejournal.com]

While non-canonical, the Adam West Batman typically only hits people who have already hit him. BAM!

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

I've never been able to tell....are you a fan of Batman or not?

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

95% of the time, no.

The 5% where it's "yes" is mostly the video games, these days - Arkham Whatever have been really good games, tons of fun, but they unfortunately emphasize how much "Batman divides the universe into rich (usually good) and poor (ALWAYS evil), beats poor people to death for fun, and only occasionally takes out someone who's worse than he is" is the defining element of the modern incarnation of the character.

People say Rorschach was a parody of Batman. I think this is wrong: Rorschach was just Batman, seen through other people's eyes and thus not susceptible to Batman's unreliable narration.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

I was just messing with you. I would never in a million years mistake you for a Batman fan, despite your praise of things like the Arkham series, which I've always chalked up more to the crafting of the game rather than anything done by the star character.

I'd debate some of what you said, but really don't see the point anymore. I already come off as way more of a fan of Batman than I actually am (I've honestly been pretty sick of him - with a couple of exceptions - for a while now), and none of our Batman conversations ever end well anyway.

It's interesting that you've heard people say Rorschach was a parody of Batman. I've personally never heard that before. I've always heard that he was based on the original vision of the character he was originally supposed to be (The Question) and his precursor Mr. A. I don't even think Batman really had that broody psycho personality until The Dark Knight Returns, which was published the same year Watchmen started.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

The sad part is, I keep *wanting* there to be a good Batman.

RE: Rorschach vs Batman: It's from * nearly 30 years ago*, and Watchmen was never as immediately famous as Miller!Batman. While I'll admit "Rorschach is a parody of Batman" mostly comes from modern fans who might be expected to rate a Sisters Of Mercy collection as "derivative of Trent Reznor and Marilyn Manson"[1], it fits. Rorschach *is* modern Batman, without editorial fiat.

But I'll maintain "Rorschach is an absolute pitch-perfect sendup of the archetype that Batman became, despite it being repulsive and stupid".

Frank Miller Batman *wishes* he was Mr A. And couldn't be, because not even Frank Miller could maintain Randian Superman levels of cognitive dissonance.

[1]: True story.

[eididdy.livejournal.com]

He just seems to get worse and worse. I'm at the point where the Arkham games are the only place I really like him, and Origins strained and (to an extent) Knight is straining that one too.

I read up some more and I did find a reference to Moore saying that Rorschach was supposed to be the logical result of the archetype Batman represents. So maybe not parody so much as reality? Your "Rorschach is an absolute pitch-perfect sendup of the archetype that Batman became, despite it being repulsive and stupid" might actually be hitting the nail right on the head.

I meant that Rorschach was the one who was premised off of the Question and Mr. A, not Batman.

Your true story makes me sad.

[drhoz.livejournal.com]

Nods - and Dredd won't hesitate to risk his life to save a citizen - indeed, canonically he chewed out another judge that said Dredd was too important to risk.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

That's another notable difference: Dredd's world *has civilians* who aren't dupes, secretly supporting criminals, or simply ignoring crime and letting it happen without protest.

[drhoz.livejournal.com]

Dredd's universe also has effective internal investigations - corrupt judges get treated VERY harshly, not protected