(no subject)

[theweaselking]

So there's a Japanese Catholic hospital.

They don't like abortion, predictably, but they have a relatively sensible take on it for Catholics: rather than just working to ban it, they try to actually address the causes of abortion and came up with a novel solution they hoped would reduce both the number of people who want abortions *and* the number of babies who die from being abandoned.

Their solution: "The Stork's Cradle", a place where unwanted newborns could be dropped off anonymously - allowing parents to have their child adopted, and hopefully reducing the number of abandoned babies left in dangerous places, or where they would not be found in time.

It opened last Thursday.

On the first day of operation, they also had their first drop-off: A toddler, approximately three years old, who was only able to tell the police that he'd come there with "daddy", that he'd taken the train with his daddy to the city and that he really didn't know where home was, or what his daddy's name is.

Comments

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

Great idea in theory. But pretty fucked up something like that would happen the first day. In a very sick way, it's somewhat humorous. But also really really sad... Poor kid =/

HOW ABOUT PEOPLE USE BIRTH CONTROL IF THEY DON'T WANT CHILDREN?!?! Jeez... And aren't there adoption services available if people don't want their children? I don't understand why people abandon their babies in the first place if there are services already available to correctly place their child...

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Not everyone has the option to use BC, for one. And not everyone ESPECIALLY Catholics and other very right religions don't get tought about BC, other than that it is evil. On top of that, yes, Adoption is the ideal, but again, not always an option. Stateside anyway you have to have both parents permission to give the baby up for adoption. It is possible if a guy (or girl) wants to totally ruin your life, for them to refuse to sign the child over. Then add in the fairly rare high school babies no one knows even exists due to loose clothing and hyper modesty. Ignorant and confused, and frightened, only really understanding that having a kid will ruin her life, those kids tend to end up in the dumpster. Or how about the woman who is running from an abuser, and knows she can't take care of the kid, but knows he won't give up beating the kids?

There are always reasons. That someone outside the parent's head does not understand them does not negate those very very volitile reasons to that parent.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

You're right. I wonder if the simple solution might be to teach people facts about sex and birth control and not spooky myths? And I wonder if a better idea might be to provide free birth control to the masses? gasp?

Also, free clinics also provide free condoms and almost all cities have one. I'd love to see who these people who don't have access to birth control are. i suspect the root cause is ignorance, not unavailabiilty.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that birth control isn't 100% effective. catlin also raised several other valuable points which you are blissfully ignoring.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Or not being of legal age to access that free birth control in your state. Not being able to go to the free clinic without parental permission, when your parents are fundie flakes, cuts you off til you are of age without actually teaching you that sex is anything but the great way to spend an hour and raise your fragile self esteem.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

Well, that's my point, if they don't want people getting abortions, whynot push the idea or spread the knowledge of birth control? So many places in the world could benefit from this.. Even just condoms... Guh..

I think it's wrong that people don't understand the consequences of their actions. If people are going to be having sex, they need to understand that the consequence could be bringing a new child into the world. Giving people the option to just give up their kid, which might in turn seriously fuck up the kid, that's just not taking responsibility. Likewise, letting people have abortions is just another way out of that responsibility. I feel that abandoning a child is worse than simply not having one, but that of course is my own personal feeling on the matter.

Personally, I'm ok with abortion, because it's up to the parents to decide if they could give their kid a good life, and if they don't think they can do that, then why bring another miserable kid into the world. That seems irresponsible to me. But as I said, that's up to the parents.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

The headline on theweaselking's post was "So there's a Japanese Catholic hospital." That Catholic part means they don't want people using condoms, they believe they are morally wrong. The truth of such claims is a trifle irrelevant: while people believe in such truths, it is better to address the problems. The alternative is to decry their religion, tell them to just 'get with it,' and not do anything to prevent folk abandoning children.

It's not abandoning the child! It's giving the child to a service which will take care of it. The entire intention is to prevent abandonment. People've had sex, accidentally fallen pregnant. The difference between lack or failure of birth control is frankly irrelevant at this point. The issue is abortion, and plenty of people refuse to get abortions for moral/health/whocares reasons. At this juncture, leaving the child for adoption is not only the rational thing to do, it's the right thing to do if one cannot care for the child.

You are fine with abortion, and that's great. But not everyone is. This service offers an alternative.

[jsbowden.livejournal.com]

I hate to rain on your parade here, but having grown up in the Catholic church here in the US, I can tell you that Rome is mostly ignored on the issue of birth control. I also wouldn't categorize mainstream US Catholics as far right. Most tend to be Democrats, with reservations on the whole abortion thing, but you don't see them shooting doctors or bombing clinics. The bishops in this country do not promote extremism, and during one very memorable mass, it was stated very emphatically that Catholicism is not fundamentalism. It was rather amusing to watch, as at that point, I was only going to make mom happy.

[entropymagnet.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. Although I'm personally not a religious person at all, I did grow up in the Catholic church and it's crazy how people love to rail against the Catholics for being strict.

At my old church, most of the Catholics were as liberal as could be. While most of us seem to have a general respect for the backwards-thinking Pope [Jay Pee Squared, not B16], I've NEVER heard any plain ol' American Catholic look to the Vatican for advice. However, when I moved to NC and went to church one morning with a friend in high school, it was suddenly all PHEER TEH WRATHZ OF JEZUZ!

[torrain.livejournal.com]

...from personal experience, with the whole caveat that anecdote is not data, it's not that strict in Canada, either.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

It is a pity that not all churches are not the same. One of my closer friends here is from one of the more "devout families. Her daughter is being sent to catholic school by her parents. The commentary was based on what she is being tought, and what her mother was tought also at the catholic schools she was sent to. That BC was a crime against God and did not work anyway.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

If you're Catholic, that's not an option.* The service is set up to allow people who have unwanted children a means to, uh, dispose of said children without abandoning them to the city. A drop-off point such as this means unwanted children can be adopted and cared for, rather than running the risk of death.

As for existing adoption services: yes. But this allows the parent/s to keep their anonymity, a significant concern in conservative Japan. Prior to this service, children were as likely to be left in a cardboard box on a subway as anything else. This gives people with few options a choice.

It would be a wonderful world if people would use birth control. But not all people will. Perhaps more importantly, not all birth control WORKS. It is very easy to consider a scenario where one becomes pregnant DESPITE birth control and refuses to get an abortion. In such a situation, a drop-off service for unwanted babies is an excellent solution.

If only one person uses it, the service has done it's duty.


*Well, it is an option, but it's a morally incorrect option.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

I suspect that if people were taught legitimate facts, rather than scary ghost stories, about birth control and if it was available to people, then the dramatic problem of huge numbers of unwanted pregnancies and babies would become a far rarer thing indeed.

this is yet another issue where the catholics have turned their strange myth into a medical problem and they shoudl be held accountable. If some extremist nut refuses religious treatment for her children and just prays real hard, she's still facing charges when they die and this should be no different. the fact that someone's personal beliefs are irrational shouldn't protect them.

yes, freedom of religion means you are free to believe whatever you want, but you are never fre to DO whatever you want through action or inaction.

[thette.livejournal.com]

It's Japan. Hormonal birth control has been approved for less than ten years, and is not widely available. Condoms are usually the only birth control choice, and abortion is considered a standard backup.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

My response is more of a global thing. Places where having too many children and not enough resources to care for them, they need to be using birth control. Even if only condoms, if used correctly, it could reduce the burden on these societies. I know many places, birth control is not something people are educated about, and I think they really need to be.

I use condoms and the pill, and I'm STILL not completely secure in that I won't get preggers. In other words, I freak out until I get my period, haha. I don't ever want to have to make that awfully hard decision in the event that I end up pregnant when I'm not ready for it..

[catlin.livejournal.com]

It is worth note that I live in a town where it is the standard proceedure if you feel you cannot handle having a child, usually because you fear you will abuse them, you can take said child and leave them at the hospital, fire department, and police station, and there will be no prosecution. This has been fairly standard for years now.

The only thing here that stands out is that this place is catholic. I have to say I approve, both of the hospital and the father. He chose a more responsible path than keeping and abusing the kid.

[mcfnord.livejournal.com]

these are well-established in Italy.

[normanrafferty.livejournal.com]

Yep. Since the 19th century, possibly before.

[siouxsyn.livejournal.com]

This has been standard in most cultures at some point.
Convents took in foundlings only a couple of generations ago in Australia. It was that or get the backyard abortion that Dad made you have.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

But we're supposed to be advancing as a people. This is an after the fact solution. Birth control and sex education are before the fact solutions and have the added benefit of not making babies that are now living people that have to be dealt with. The fact that this already happens doesn't mean it's an ideal solution.

[corruptedjasper.livejournal.com]

No shit. But *even with* 100% condom-use, for example, you're *still* going to get babies being left at the doors of the convent. Not as many, obviously, but *the problem does not go away entirely*.

[siouxsyn.livejournal.com]

The solution these people have is the best one under the circumstances. They are Catholics. Birth control and abortion are not choices they have. Sex education is great as far as it works, but things will always go wrong.

Advancing as a people is tricky business. Practices which seem horrendous to you will one day be standard practices. What am I saying? This is a world where parents buy their 16yr-olds boob jobs.

[miz-geek.livejournal.com]

This idea is on the rise in a lot of places. You often see it mentioned after one of those horrific stories about a newborn being found in a dumpster somewhere.

[scixual.livejournal.com]

Sounds horrible, but it's probably better for the kid anyway.