(no subject)

[theweaselking]

So there's a Japanese Catholic hospital.

They don't like abortion, predictably, but they have a relatively sensible take on it for Catholics: rather than just working to ban it, they try to actually address the causes of abortion and came up with a novel solution they hoped would reduce both the number of people who want abortions *and* the number of babies who die from being abandoned.

Their solution: "The Stork's Cradle", a place where unwanted newborns could be dropped off anonymously - allowing parents to have their child adopted, and hopefully reducing the number of abandoned babies left in dangerous places, or where they would not be found in time.

It opened last Thursday.

On the first day of operation, they also had their first drop-off: A toddler, approximately three years old, who was only able to tell the police that he'd come there with "daddy", that he'd taken the train with his daddy to the city and that he really didn't know where home was, or what his daddy's name is.

Comments

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

Well, that's my point, if they don't want people getting abortions, whynot push the idea or spread the knowledge of birth control? So many places in the world could benefit from this.. Even just condoms... Guh..

I think it's wrong that people don't understand the consequences of their actions. If people are going to be having sex, they need to understand that the consequence could be bringing a new child into the world. Giving people the option to just give up their kid, which might in turn seriously fuck up the kid, that's just not taking responsibility. Likewise, letting people have abortions is just another way out of that responsibility. I feel that abandoning a child is worse than simply not having one, but that of course is my own personal feeling on the matter.

Personally, I'm ok with abortion, because it's up to the parents to decide if they could give their kid a good life, and if they don't think they can do that, then why bring another miserable kid into the world. That seems irresponsible to me. But as I said, that's up to the parents.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

The headline on theweaselking's post was "So there's a Japanese Catholic hospital." That Catholic part means they don't want people using condoms, they believe they are morally wrong. The truth of such claims is a trifle irrelevant: while people believe in such truths, it is better to address the problems. The alternative is to decry their religion, tell them to just 'get with it,' and not do anything to prevent folk abandoning children.

It's not abandoning the child! It's giving the child to a service which will take care of it. The entire intention is to prevent abandonment. People've had sex, accidentally fallen pregnant. The difference between lack or failure of birth control is frankly irrelevant at this point. The issue is abortion, and plenty of people refuse to get abortions for moral/health/whocares reasons. At this juncture, leaving the child for adoption is not only the rational thing to do, it's the right thing to do if one cannot care for the child.

You are fine with abortion, and that's great. But not everyone is. This service offers an alternative.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

The parents are still abandoning their child. Yes, someone is stepping up and caring for the child. But they were still abandoned by someone. Not abandoned in the sense that they are being left on the street to die. But in the sense that someone decided to abandon their responsibility to the child as parent.

I understand that Catholics don't like birth control. And they don't like abortion. They think it's immoral. But don't they also think having sex before marriage is immoral? Why aren't "parents" reprimanded more harshly for having sex before marriage then? Because obviously if the Catholics were being moral, like the Church says they should be, then they wouldn't have this issue in the first place...

And yes, I agree, it is the rational and right thing to do, to put the child up for adoption if you cannot care for the child after it is born. I never said that that wasn't the right and rational thing to do..

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

'Abandon' implies 'leaving without concern,' which clearly isn't the case in any situation where the child is being left in care. According to your argument, any adoption process is abandonment.

Catholics DO think having sex before marriage is wrong. Super wrong. They ARE reprimanded harshly for having sex before marriage. The thing is that people DO fail, and do immoral things. Some Catholics do use birth control. Some have abortions. Some have sex before marriage. What we're discussing here is what happens when the latter is the problem.

Or, y'know, when married couples are just having sex (perfectly permissible) and can't take care of children. Or when the birth control fails. Or in the case of rape, or incest or a thousand other concerns.

You seemed to be saying it was irresponsible (i.e, not right and not rational) to have a child when you cannot take care of it. My point is that it's not always as simple as abortion: []Yes or []No.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

I guess I wasn't very clear. I definitely understand that there are circumstances where such things can't be avoided. As you said, in the case of rape, birth control fails, etc. I guess I'm just angry that people don't take more responsibility for their actions than they currently do. I'm talking about the people in which these special circumstances do not apply to. And I know it happens a lot more than many would like to admit.

You can't really be reprimanded, however, if you drop off anon. I understand that's the point, people would just stick their kids on the streets if they were to be reprimanded, and of course, people don't like to be punished. And, indeed, this happens all the time, to avoid the shame. I got it, I understand. I still don't think it's right. Blah.

And yes, I know it's not as simple as abortion. While I am pro-choice, I know I would have a very difficult time of deciding whether or not to abort my own baby if the situation ever arrose. That's why I'll do my best to not have to make that decision.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

That's fine. I'm sure the Church would agree with that position. But railing against foolishness doesn't help the unwilling victims of that foolishness. Like I said elsewhere, treat the symptoms and then move on to treating the problem.

You can't be publically humiliated or be in danger of your job, life, whatever, if you drop them off anonymously, no. But if you confide to your priest as a devout Catholic, I'm sure he would proscribe some kind of suitable penance. Besides, the guilt and torment those poor mothers would go through is probably more than enough punishment. If there is a problem of abandonment (which there is), then this is the correct solution to the problem. A safe, healthy, anonymous way of ensuring your unwanted babies are kept safe. Like I said above: even if only one person uses it, that's one less baby left in a cardboard box somewhere. That is to be commended.

Ja. Pro choice is making sure there are choices. This service grants another one.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

True.

I never said this service was a bad thing, mind you. And you are right, you do have to do something about the "symptoms"...

Indeed, the mothers' probably do go through quite a bit of torment.. Except for the occasional nutjob that feels no remorse. (I have heard of mothers that do not feel anything for ridding themselves of their child, I find this appalling. A friend of mind had to answer to social services about one of these such "mothers"..)

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

Even so, better to take the child away from a mother than cares not if said child lives or dies. Better than THAT is to have an anonymous option for said parent to give the child up for adoption.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

I'm not disagreeing.

As I said before, I'm just against this feeling that people can do what they want and to hell with the consequences. (Yes, I know this does not apply to everyone, but it does apply to some, and that bugs me.)

Damn humans.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

Now there is an admirable sentiment.

Damn humans indeed.

[chaosrah.livejournal.com]

And yes. Humans fail. To err is human, eh?