(no subject)

[theweaselking]

Man arrested with IEDs in the USA, but he's not a "terrorist" because he's white, male, Christian, and was only planning to use the bombs on *protestors* at Jerry Falwell's funeral

Comments

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

The word is frequently misused.

1.Killing people for killing's sake isn't a terroist act.
2.Killing people for purposes of intimidation or social change IS a terrorist act.

So, technically he's not one but the first definition has been the default assumed definition of late so it does seem odd that he didn't get the title.

[dolston.livejournal.com]

I agree with your assessment. Sounds more like attempted murder and explosives charges and not terrorism.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

And what do you think they'd call him if he was a Muslim looking to kill protesters at Muqtaqa al-Sadr's funeral?

Or if he was a pro-choicer looking to kill protesters outside an abortion clinic?

[anivair.livejournal.com]

Wait, he's killing protestors at the funeral to what end if not to put the fear of god into the hearts on nonbelievers for a r eligious or political end?

How is that not terrorism, again?

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

Terrorism aims for a larger effect, he felt he was merely defending Falwell's memory.

Delusional? Yes.
Terrorism? Not quite.

To use your definition, protection scams would fall under the heading of "terrorism".

[anivair.livejournal.com]

protection scams aren't going ot reach as many eyes and ears. if I scare Apu into paying Jimmy the fish protection money, that's one thing. If I kill Apu for being muslim to send a message to all muslims everywhere, that's terrorism.

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

If I kill Apu and his entire family, all the other fish shops on the block will pay me without question.

You imply that terrorism can't be conducted for money.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

No, I imply that money isn't important at all. Terrorism is a tactic. The goals are irrelevant.

[jl-williams.livejournal.com]

That's not a terrorist -- that's a fanatic.

[jl-williams.livejournal.com]

Terrorism is merely the perpetuation of terror. You don't need to kill people, or have a political agenda, or have any interest in social change at all.

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

It's a P.R. game, at its core.

This guy's just a nutjob.

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

ter·ror·ism (těr'ə-rĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

That fits him perfectly.

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

"the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. "

There was no such intent here, merely a willingness to use direct violence against a perceived enemy.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

There was no such intent here. . . .

Oh, I disagree. He and his cohorts disagreed about the would-be protestors' constitutional right to congregate and express protected free speech.

Had he/they personally known the targets in advance, your argument might have worked; one could then invoke an existing personal relationship between target and nutjob to avoid the general "terrorist" umbrella.

(I do agree that protesting at a funeral is poor in taste, but it is protected.)

[anivair.livejournal.com]

I disagree. Or do you think that his goal was to silence only those protestors in his blast radius?

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

If the eco-arsonists get the terrorist designation and he doesn't, then it's No Justice No Peace Time.

Again.

[atlasimpure.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree with you entirely on the front of "Word has been frequently misused previously, so why not now?" but as far the actual definition...

[itlandm.livejournal.com]

His scope is simply too limited. It has little or no effect on the larger populace, nor is there any sign that it is intended to achieve a political goal to which the actual violence is secondary.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

No. Seriously. he's blowing up people that don't share his political/religious viewpoint to evoke fear and terror (unless you think he didn't want to send a message to all the other nonbelievers). In what way is that not terrorism?

[itlandm.livejournal.com]

Two reasons:
1) It is an isolated incident. Like the difference between murder and war, personal intent is not enough. There has to be a certain scale.

2) There must be a capacity to create fear in the wider populace. Attacks on minority groups create fear in the minority group but not in the larger populace (e.g. KKK) and are called hate crimes, not terrorism.

That is certainly not to say that a hate crime is inherently "better" than an act of terrorism. Just that they are different words for different concepts.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

You don't think people that aren't evangelical whack jobs aren't the norm? The people he's attacking are mainstream. he's the minority fringe group.

[itlandm.livejournal.com]

I don't think it is mainstream to picket burials, no. The fact that the guy is a nut job doesn't mean that most people identify with the vocal minority on the opposite end of the religious and political spectrum either.

I seriously doubt that the virtual dancing on Falwell's grave that I see on my LJ friends list is typical for America outside college campuses. The moral majority is still a majority, it is just not very moral.

[graethorne.livejournal.com]

D'Oh! Stop the crazy AFTER he blows up Fred Phelps?

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

No shit.