Gotta love "Pro-Life"-ers

[theweaselking]

14-year-old Polish girl raped at school, pregnant, but, despite abortion being legal, can't get one - because deranged Catholics have assaulted and threatened to kill every willing doctor she can get close to.

She was taken from her home to "protect" her from her mother, because her mother supported her right to an abortion.

She went to one gynecologist who *said* she'd perform an abortion, booked an appointment, put the girl in a room, and then promptly called in a priest. Which is apparently legal because medical privacy laws in Poland are ethics-based, enforced by associations of practitioners instead of the courts, and the organisation has chosen not to pursue the claim against this woman.

Also,
11-year-old rape victim in Romania denied an abortion because "rape has not been proven".

Comments

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Okay, I'm just going to outline my personal positions on the whole thing. It's a bit different from the Official Catholic Position, but I truly believe that it's a more caring, compassionate approach, and that it's far more likely to yield an actual reduction in abortions and in human suffering overall.

I oppose abortion. I also oppose laws to restrict abortion, because of the actual impact of those laws on individuals and societies. I support sex education, prevention of unwanted pregnancies, and restriction of the spread of disease, including sexually transmitted disease. I support programs and policies which support single parents, make adoption easier, and provide non-judgmental counseling services for victims of rape, incest, and abandonment. I support safe and accessible abortion clinics. I support work to eliminate the stigma of unmarried pregnancy.

Jesus said of the religious authorities of his time, "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger." (Matthew 23:4) It seems to me that today, "men" should be replaced by "women" in this context. If abortions are to stop, it must come about because women stop feeling a need for them, not because of the enactment of laws or moral codes.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

How do you feel about the Bill Clinton position on abortion? That position, for the record, is "abortion should be safe, legal, available, cheap, and extremely rare"

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

That would be my hope, yes. Without the other support structures though, it's not going to be as rare as we'd like it. Wishing is nice, but planning is better.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

"I support safe and accessible abortion clinics."

So you're pro-choice, then. The end.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

There are degrees of "pro-choice". One can sincerely believe that abortion is a tragedy while supporting it as a necessity.

And Mike does that.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. Fair enough.

[badbadbookworm.livejournal.com]

That suggests that there are pro-choicers who think abortion is happy-jolly-funtimes.

Nobody thinks abortion is ideal, but if you support it as a necessity, you're pro-choice. Simple as.

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

I have heard people take the position that it's nothing more than a medical procedure to remove an unwanted growth, with no more moral dimension than an appendectomy or the removal of a tumor.

I'm with theweaselking: there are indeed degrees of "pro-choice".

[badbadbookworm.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to think about that one.

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

A lot of people who call themselves pro-choice would disagree with you, I think.

I don't usually fit well into either side of a debate as polarized as this one is, sadly... you could as easily have said,

"I oppose abortion."

So you're pro-life, then. The end.

I'm both, and that puts me on a side that doesn't have a lot of vocal supporters.

[goblinpaladin.livejournal.com]

Oh, you and your nuanced views and your careful statements.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

It's really part of why I value his opinions so highly.

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

*is embarrassed*

Thank you.

[unknownpoltroon.livejournal.com]

Holy shit. A sane, reasonable stance, that fixes the problem!!! If there were more people like you, I might not be anti church.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

He's a very bad catholic, and his position has next to nothing to do with the church.

It's one of the reasons I like him!

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

*grin* I'm a good catholic... just sometimes not a terribly Roman catholic.

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Now, if only I could convince a few of the right people...