I don't take sides without more study than I'm willing to put into this. But if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Deen#Racial_discrimination_controversy is all the mob against her have got, well, it's not much of a case. They don't even give the dates that she allegedly said/thought these things.
Suppose 50 years from now, you get attacked for saying "That sucks!" in 2013. That's a slur against a sexual minority. I hope it becomes a taboo expression, but using it in 2013 isn't grounds for a mob ruining your career in 2063.
More important: Texas Governor Perry has called ANOTHER special session for July 1 to try to pass his anti-abortion bill.
Also more important: some dog-friendly kittens in Chattanooga need adoption, and the fee is only $35 each. See http://cmpriest.livejournal.com/1330032.html , details at the bottom of the entry.
So, for the record, you *were* referring to Deen and defending Deen along the Deen/Rice argument lines? Without, as you admit, bothering to look up what the problem actually is beyond a Wikipedia article not only subject to BLP restrictions but actively being edited by Deen's frothy mass of supporters?
Suppose in 50 years, words like chick, broad, etc are taboo.
They're taboo now.
Should you be punished in 2063 for having used them in 2013?
The more you say this, the more I think you're still on about Deen despite admitting that you don't know anything about it and don't care that you're wrong, you just want to defend the white woman who said "nigger".
How about you try reading the original link and come back, maybe with a less-bullshit response?
Using "It sucks!" as a term for "It's bad" is a serious slur against gays,
No, "cocksucker" would be. "Sucks" is no more about gays than "fucker" is.
But given the rest of your answers here and elsewhere, I strongly suspect you're being deliberately disingenuous, not just blindingly ignorant. So you are cordially invited to smarten up and lose the "devil's advocate" position that you're too inarticulate to make work, or fuck right off.
That was my response to your last concern-trolling attempt, too, come to think of it. You should strongly consider whether or not you want that to be my next one.
Okay. I've never seen it specifically about homosexuals the way "cocksucker" is - "cocksucker" only ever gets deployed against men. The more general "that sucks" for me has always been in context either of "chest wound" or "the Lovelace unit", one of which involves penises but neither is about gay men.
Its entirely possible I'm wrong about the source, sure - but even then, I can think of a great many things that would be a "serious slur against gays" without *ever* reaching "sucks".
Suppose 50 years from now, you get attacked for saying "That sucks!" in 2013. That's a slur against a sexual minority.
...people who are willing to go down on someone with a penis are a sexual minority? I mean, you have stats on that?
As to the rest of it: yes, you are correct, if the blatantly inaccurate misrepresentation of the lawsuit against Paula Deen that you outline was accurate, that would indeed be going too far. Thank you for making it clear that you are not interested in conducting an informed discussion on the topic.
As to the rest of it: yes, you are correct, if the blatantly inaccurate misrepresentation of the lawsuit against Paula Deen that you outline was accurate, that would indeed be going too far.
Please distinguish the lawsuit from the media/mob flap and the moves to get her show dropped, The plaintiffs would not profit from her having less income with which to pay their damages if they win.
The lawsuit alleges discrimination in her business. Why the plaintiffs' lawyer in the deposition went so deeply after details of her past vocabulary (like Ken Starr going after details of Clinton's affair with Monica), we can only speculate. Perhaps it was intended as blackmail. Perhaps someone stole a copy and sold it to the Enquirer.
I have no interest in the lawsuit etc, and only a mild interest in the way the vocabulary flap is being presented.
You should probably not attempt to argue it without knowing anything about it, then.
only a mild interest in the way the vocabulary flap is being presented.
You do indeed have the ability to be uninterested. Goooood for you. You should also probably not try to argue this, either, since you don't care and don't know anything about it.
Oh, wait, does your ignorance extend so far that you are imagining the only time the word "nigger" came up in the lawsuit was during an assertion Paula Deen used it (to quote your first tag) FIFTY YEARS AGO?
(Off by a factor of ten, much...)
I imagine it must be lovely to be able to make up things to sustain your own "mild interest", and again, do thank you for making it so brilliantly clear that you treasure your ignorance.
Oh yeah, let's totally ignore the "plans for plantation-style wedding with slaves", "sambo burger", "discriminatory hiring and payment practices", "discriminatory promotion practices", "non-compensation of overtime, with extra discrimination", "sexual harassment of women at the workplace by Bubba", "belittling, name-calling with racial pejoratives and harassing workers who are people of color"... and oh hey, all this in 2007ish and onward, which is totes like 50 years ago! :D
Oh and Food Network had already observed that even before this latest revelation, Deen's show's viewer ratings had been going down, which is a good reason for the network to do axe the show (hey, if "low ratings" can kill Firefly, then surely it applies here too).
Also, I believe it is called as "free market", when a private company picks and chooses who will represent their brand for maximum gain.
I always enjoy when people say things that are indefensible, spend 2 (small) paragraphs trying to defend their view, and then end with, "BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY.... go worry about this thing, and stop illustrating at length how I am being a clue vacuum."
because, as is always the case, one can only have an opinion or be concerned about a single item at a time.
But you do definitely get points for trying to put on a Paladin's Cap of Lawful Goodery +3 by whipping out the pet adoption bit at the end. That's pretty inspired.
Is he anywhere near Chattanooga? CMpriest hastily turned in some dog-friendly kittens to a kill shelter, then began trying to get someone to adopt them (fee $35).
Oh and: Think VEEERRRY carefully before you repost that comment you just deleted. You know, the one where you call the people complaining about Deen's racism a "mob" and once again imply that they're referring to a single harmless incident 50 years ago.
Because I've already had enough of people complaining that "hey, that's racist" is EXACTLY THE SAME as lynching. People who say that, after ALREADY having been shown that they're completely full of shit and have no idea what they're talking about, are too stupid to participate here.
Actually She DIDN'T say it in reference to organising a slave plantation themed restaurant, because she didn't feel that the black people she was thinking of hiring to act as slaves for the restaurant (obSF: Clarke's Empire Earth) were THOSE bad kind of black people who one naturally calls niggers.
Unlike the employee she DID recently call a nigger and who is now sueing her for it.
Who? (I can't figure out to whom you're replying, as threading is sort of wonky now with all the replies.)
Because my point is that Paula Deen has, as per deposition and articles researched and written about her, shown a pretty rotten streak for a good while in present moment, not just some nebulous fifty years ago. She isn't just one old lady who had a single slip of a tongue in the past and who is getting crucified or mob lynched by PC crowd gone crazy.
The court deposition is pretty bleak reading. Her recent crying fit apology felt like she was sorry that she got caught and being told that the stuff she does is not okay, not really sorry for what she had done or said. She built a house of cards, on assumption that she can keep saying and doing whatever she likes because other people are not going to stand up for their rights, and now it is all coming down.
I think (based on a lot of scrolling) they're responding to houseboatonstyx; I'm not seeing where specifically That Ignoramus discussed what fridgepunk is responding to, but given that That Ignoramus's comment contained a link to a Wikipedia page, it's possible that they were refuting what That Ignoramus was linking to at the moment.
Remember what I said earlier about learning first, THEN having opinions?
Free clue: The entire current controversy is based on that lawsuit. It *is* all over the internet.
If you're trying to play Devil's Advocate, you're not smart enough. That leaves you strongly and repeatedly *sincerely* defending Deen's racism as "totally not important".
The funniest bit is of course that there is a recording, not of the n-word bomb, but a different incident showing the mindset which makes someone completely unable to recognize the hurt pushed around, even while swearing up and down that they're not racists.
It is pretty awful, that the word "racist" is something people seem to think of as "actual racism begins from lynching and Jim Crow and dropping racial ephitets in a neverending stream while kicking the living shit out of people of color", whereas it is perfectly possible to do racist shit in everyday life, through small things said or done.
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(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 03:03 am (UTC)Suppose 50 years from now, you get attacked for saying "That sucks!" in 2013. That's a slur against a sexual minority. I hope it becomes a taboo expression, but using it in 2013 isn't grounds for a mob ruining your career in 2063.
More important: Texas Governor Perry has called ANOTHER special session for July 1 to try to pass his anti-abortion bill.
Also more important: some dog-friendly kittens in Chattanooga need adoption, and the fee is only $35 each. See http://cmpriest.livejournal.com/1330032.html , details at the bottom of the entry.
Bye.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 01:19 pm (UTC)That's a slur against a sexual minority.
.... and now you're just reaching.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 03:53 pm (UTC)Using "It sucks!" as a term for "It's bad" is a serious slur against gays, who are under serious persecution.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 04:04 pm (UTC)They're taboo now.
Should you be punished in 2063 for having used them in 2013?
The more you say this, the more I think you're still on about Deen despite admitting that you don't know anything about it and don't care that you're wrong, you just want to defend the white woman who said "nigger".
How about you try reading the original link and come back, maybe with a less-bullshit response?
Using "It sucks!" as a term for "It's bad" is a serious slur against gays,
No, "cocksucker" would be. "Sucks" is no more about gays than "fucker" is.
But given the rest of your answers here and elsewhere, I strongly suspect you're being deliberately disingenuous, not just blindingly ignorant. So you are cordially invited to smarten up and lose the "devil's advocate" position that you're too inarticulate to make work, or fuck right off.
That was my response to your last concern-trolling attempt, too, come to think of it. You should strongly consider whether or not you want that to be my next one.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 06:01 pm (UTC)Not that I think this at all supports
(When I was a youth the phrase “sucks the bag” was also A Thing and I was always puzzled, thinking about sucking on a dirty plastic bag or somesuch)
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 06:32 pm (UTC)Its entirely possible I'm wrong about the source, sure - but even then, I can think of a great many things that would be a "serious slur against gays" without *ever* reaching "sucks".
(no subject)
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Date: 2013-06-28 03:50 am (UTC)No, "cocksucker" would be. "Sucks" is no more about gays than "fucker" is.
You'd better hope the mob in 2063 agrees with you.
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Date: 2013-06-27 03:14 pm (UTC)...people who are willing to go down on someone with a penis are a sexual minority? I mean, you have stats on that?
As to the rest of it: yes, you are correct, if the blatantly inaccurate misrepresentation of the lawsuit against Paula Deen that you outline was accurate, that would indeed be going too far. Thank you for making it clear that you are not interested in conducting an informed discussion on the topic.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 03:50 pm (UTC)As to the rest of it: yes, you are correct, if the blatantly inaccurate misrepresentation of the lawsuit against Paula Deen that you outline was accurate, that would indeed be going too far.
Please distinguish the lawsuit from the media/mob flap and the moves to get her show dropped, The plaintiffs would not profit from her having less income with which to pay their damages if they win.
The lawsuit alleges discrimination in her business. Why the plaintiffs' lawyer in the deposition went so deeply after details of her past vocabulary (like Ken Starr going after details of Clinton's affair with Monica), we can only speculate. Perhaps it was intended as blackmail. Perhaps someone stole a copy and sold it to the Enquirer.
I have no interest in the lawsuit etc, and only a mild interest in the way the vocabulary flap is being presented.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 03:53 pm (UTC)You should probably not attempt to argue it without knowing anything about it, then.
only a mild interest in the way the vocabulary flap is being presented.
You do indeed have the ability to be uninterested. Goooood for you. You should also probably not try to argue this, either, since you don't care and don't know anything about it.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 07:16 pm (UTC)(Off by a factor of ten, much...)
I imagine it must be lovely to be able to make up things to sustain your own "mild interest", and again, do thank you for making it so brilliantly clear that you treasure your ignorance.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 07:49 pm (UTC)Oh and Food Network had already observed that even before this latest revelation, Deen's show's viewer ratings had been going down, which is a good reason for the network to do axe the show (hey, if "low ratings" can kill Firefly, then surely it applies here too).
Also, I believe it is called as "free market", when a private company picks and chooses who will represent their brand for maximum gain.
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Date: 2013-06-27 03:30 pm (UTC)because, as is always the case, one can only have an opinion or be concerned about a single item at a time.
But you do definitely get points for trying to put on a Paladin's Cap of Lawful Goodery +3 by whipping out the pet adoption bit at the end. That's pretty inspired.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 08:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 03:27 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 03:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 03:52 am (UTC)Because I've already had enough of people complaining that "hey, that's racist" is EXACTLY THE SAME as lynching. People who say that, after ALREADY having been shown that they're completely full of shit and have no idea what they're talking about, are too stupid to participate here.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 09:34 pm (UTC)Unlike the employee she DID recently call a nigger and who is now sueing her for it.
FACTS: you don't have them.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 09:51 pm (UTC)Because my point is that Paula Deen has, as per deposition and articles researched and written about her, shown a pretty rotten streak for a good while in present moment, not just some nebulous fifty years ago. She isn't just one old lady who had a single slip of a tongue in the past and who is getting crucified or mob lynched by PC crowd gone crazy.
The court deposition is pretty bleak reading. Her recent crying fit apology felt like she was sorry that she got caught and being told that the stuff she does is not okay, not really sorry for what she had done or said. She built a house of cards, on assumption that she can keep saying and doing whatever she likes because other people are not going to stand up for their rights, and now it is all coming down.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 11:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-27 11:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 03:24 am (UTC)If there were good evidence for that (like a recording), I expect it would be all over the internet by now. Link?
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 03:40 am (UTC)Free clue: The entire current controversy is based on that lawsuit. It *is* all over the internet.
If you're trying to play Devil's Advocate, you're not smart enough. That leaves you strongly and repeatedly *sincerely* defending Deen's racism as "totally not important".
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 03:54 am (UTC)Clear enough?
(no subject)
Date: 2013-06-28 05:15 am (UTC)Her apology of "I is what I is and I'm not changing.", complete with histrionic "If there's anyone out there that has never said something that they wish they could take back ... please pick up that stone and throw it so hard at my head that it kills me.", is what really galls me. So she's not even going to bother to try and fix the problem with her vocabulary, if she keeps saying daft shit?
It is pretty awful, that the word "racist" is something people seem to think of as "actual racism begins from lynching and Jim Crow and dropping racial ephitets in a neverending stream while kicking the living shit out of people of color", whereas it is perfectly possible to do racist shit in everyday life, through small things said or done.